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you

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[Music]

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good morning ladies and gentlemen

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welcome to the program I am your host

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Chris George

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Zuger and you have entered the den of or

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pull your chair up to the fire grab

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yourself a cup of joe because it's ten

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o'clock in the morning and we're going

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to be learning some cool [\h__\h] courtesy

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of one of the greatest historians alive

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today on one of the most controversial

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mr. David Rohl is joining us alive in

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the den although not actually in the den

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because he is currently on the line with

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me from the wilds of much warmer than

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here we are in Ottawa Spain and I am

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quite excited to have him on the show

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with me and for all of you today

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we're going to be discussing the topics

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of Pharaohs and Kings Egypt

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geochronology

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as well as his recent travels through

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Jordan and Israel filming the new

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patterns of evidence Moses special oh my

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goodness I cannot wait for this oh I've

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been waiting for this show for so long

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oh man let me welcome everyone here now

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don't let everyone know you know I do

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dress up sometimes I do clean up quite

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well and

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you know I have to make sure that we

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look at the part where possible now I

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want to be able to give a special thank

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you to our patrons who ensure that we

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can continue to operate continue to

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bring you the greatest minds in

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alternative research

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and alternative ideas as well as

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mainstream academia today and if we're

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not for our patrons well it could be

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kind of hard to keep the lights on so I

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want to give a very special thank you to

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our illustrious masters Jacqui him

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across the pond and Pat from Brooklyn as

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well as to our masters who have been

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with us since the beginning

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Jenny dauber mayor ran off leave L Ben

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Chuck Schwartz at Jerry Thompson mrs.

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Fox roses Joshua Ematic mark and

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Catalano and our den mother Ellen

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mccurdy as well as thank you to our

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other patrons

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Audrey Rowan Mike Rice Eclipse it Eric

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Jay Ferguson Martin Atkinson photopic

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Nick Zed gray yard Charles Davis Diego

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Bower Michael Eckhoff Dean John Kendra

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Anthony Jerry Atlantic Usha Vinny's from

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education to Christopher moody Robin

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Whibley and courtesy of dental or comms

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PayPal button hobby you can go to denna

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4.com Ford's sorry patreon.com ford

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slash at den of war supports for as

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little as one dollar and ensure that

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this independent media channel stays on

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the air for the foreseeable future

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now before we get to our special guest

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for today I want to be able to give just

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a quick just a quick heads-up for all of

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you who are on the eastern seaboard of

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for this weekend tomorrow as we all do

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know a very very good friend of the show

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Laird Scranton and ed Nightingale have a

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symposium at Vassar College the day of

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instruction on ancient cosmology and

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that it's going to be in Kingston New

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York as well as it is running from 9:30

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a.m. to 4:00 p.m. a Vassar College in

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Poughkeepsie New York

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you can email layered at Scranton l/r at

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aol.com tickets are $25 per attendee to

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cover room costs and you can also just

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Google that's on Google search for it on

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Facebook I will ensure

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that the link is shared on denna Flores

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a Facebook page so again if you want to

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be able to make sure you can keep up to

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date with all the news go check out

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facebook.com forward slash to the floor

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twitter.com ford slash none of lore

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pretty well just at any social media

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account if you put forward slash den of

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lord you'll be able to find us

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and speaking of finding us david I'm

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finding you quite the you are here I'm

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here I am morning Chris good morning

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afternoon here actually just tea time

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coming up ah I just rolled outta bed

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myself and grabbed a car grab a good cup

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so wonder is a wonder about internet

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isn't it that you can be fast asleep in

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a bed somewhere listening to your show

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or waking up in the morning for

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breakfast or having afternoon tea like

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me it's the amazing thing about the

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internet it is the only downside is

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whenever we do a show I have to think in

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six time zones it's yeah like I'll try

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to wrap your mind around a tesseract

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it's very difficult to do but still

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manageable but it allows us to be able

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to share ideas and to sit down and well

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at least I hope you're sitting down I

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hope you're comfortable

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alright reclining if that's alright with

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you yeah I'm feeling very comfortable

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here let me let me join you on that one

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okay so it David it's been almost

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actually I think it's been about a year

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since you were on the show last okay

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nice Ronnie yeah and during that time I

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know that we've we've well we both had a

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lot of things happen you went on a

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extensive trip and film expedition to

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the lavance to film the new patterns of

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evidence special which I've for anybody

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who follows your social media whether

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Facebook or on Twitter the photos looked

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at very very alluring and gave a very

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good taste and I it was an amazing trip

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actually with Tim Mahoney the director

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yes and we did cover an awful lot of

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ground and I should say that the scenery

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is just stunning out there absolutely

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amazing and also at the same time that

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I was embracing the changes of life that

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fatherhood could bring I know that you

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went to some struggles yourself

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yeah health problems yeah well I was in

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hospital for 21 days over Christmas in

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new year so I didn't have much of a

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celebration over the festive season all

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to do with intestinal troubles something

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that I've had for many many years I mean

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I've been out in the Middle East since I

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was nine years old and over the years

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I've managed to get myself you know

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quite ill with wrong sorts of water and

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things like that so I had to go in and

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have some some work done as it were on

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the plumbing side well if I'm not

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mistaken it was you know if I

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mispronounce this see if I mispronounce

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something on this show the running joke

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the last several months has been

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everyone takes a shot so if I

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mispronounce this everyone take a swig

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of your coffee dear particular itis

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which diverticulitis yes which is the

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same it's the same illness that Brock

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Lesnar who is the former UFC heavyweight

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champion also suffered from he was

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actually won the championship while he

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was battling it and I know that you're a

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much more tough individual than he is so

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it's glad to see you back and it's glad

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to see you back lecturing and you know

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it for a an individual as as warm and

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welcoming as you it's it's it's good to

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know that you can like something like

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that

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well yeah hopefully I'm still going

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through the process and it takes a long

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time to get it all sorted out and I've

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got an operation to go through in a few

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months when it's booked so yeah I'll get

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through it it's not a problem it's

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something it's all part and parcel of

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the trade that I'm in archaeology in the

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Middle East you always get ill I mean so

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many great archaeologists succumb to

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various problems of health as a result

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of working in the Middle East it's a

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it's a difficult area to working most of

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your life and it's a sin with any other

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part of the world each place has its own

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obstacles or things that can just come

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out and get you in Australia it's

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spiders something that are the size of

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your head in that's gone right and they

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used to come out of the toilet don't

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they no slant oh I when I was in

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Melbourne I actually found found one in

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my bed and I I actually slept on my

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sister's couch for a couple of days

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after that just because it freaked me

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out too

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not surprised I would still take a

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spider because you can take care of it

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over what we have to deal with here in

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Canada which over the last six months

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has been hockey players polar bear and

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yes we just had an ice storm this this

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this week and it's it's it's the end of

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April it shouldn't be minus ten no

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exactly

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although going in the office direction

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and going in a much more positive

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temperature the last time you were here

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we also we recover pretty well the

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entire new chronology and had discussed

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the old or the old the past patterns of

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evidence series as well as the timeline

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but I first wanted to start this time

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with I think we're left off which was

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Zep tepi ah alright and this is a

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subject matter that Denver Michaels

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whose friend and co-author of a book

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that were coming out with as well as

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co-host for crypto corner we're starting

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ours our researches with with Atlantis

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it's kind of the joke with the show and

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the idea of Zep tepi being a primordial

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retelling of creation based on the

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various difference the cults depending

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on the city for which which con that

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that city worships and each one being a

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retelling from from their point of view

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as it were what what do you know or of

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the of the mythos or what was your

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learning on it

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from your research well I mean I can

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only do it from an ideological

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perspective in ancient Egypt there was a

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mythology of creation

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September 1st time as it means but not

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the one that you would normally hear I

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don't think the original story is

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actually on the inscribed on the walls

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of Ed foo temple in Upper Egypt or the

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South although that's a greco-roman

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Temple quite late in its construction it

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has these stories that and these legends

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that go way way back to the first time

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and it's carved upon the pro' nails area

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of the temple which is very high up you

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can't actually physically see it unless

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you climb upon the exterior wall of the

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simple and then you're in front of it

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but if you're just wandering around the

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bottom near the temple itself you don't

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actually see the inscription at all so

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it's not intended to be viewed by the

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general public and never was but up

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there there is a a relief a scene of

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eight gods then they they are sitting on

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Thrones on a primeval mound a sandy

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island which is surrounded by reed

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swamps so you have a bunch of reeds

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there and on top of the reeds is Horus

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the Falcon God it's actually perched on

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the reeds and behind them we have these

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eight gods and then in front of the the

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Horus Falcon you have the king

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worshiping Horus and the eight gods of

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the primeval mound now that is the story

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of separate epic creation in the

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Egyptian terms but the gods names are

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totally different to what we would

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normally expect none of them you would

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00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:35,030
recognize as Egyptian gods I can give

272
00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:36,890
you the first three for example the

273
00:11:41,170 --> 00:11:39,770
first one is called RR which means sort

274
00:11:43,900 --> 00:11:41,180
of sorry wait a minute what waaaaaah

275
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:43,910
which is the distant one and now our our

276
00:11:48,610 --> 00:11:45,770
the second god means the great one and

277
00:11:50,980 --> 00:11:48,620
the third god strange enough is nigh and

278
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:50,990
now is the word for Sailor so there's a

279
00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:52,880
connection with these gods to something

280
00:11:57,010 --> 00:11:55,010
overseas in terms of Egypt Egypt so

281
00:12:01,180 --> 00:11:57,020
you're looking at gods who came from

282
00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:01,190
afar over the seas usually what are the

283
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:03,680
the distant one is an epithet that we

284
00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:05,810
normally associate with the three flood

285
00:12:10,570 --> 00:12:08,210
heroes of Sumer ancient Sumeria and

286
00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:10,580
Babylon and Acadia so you have these

287
00:12:14,410 --> 00:12:12,650
names they have this epithet the distant

288
00:12:16,870 --> 00:12:14,420
one so there seems to be an association

289
00:12:18,970 --> 00:12:16,880
there and the word Horus itself or ha

290
00:12:21,940 --> 00:12:18,980
also means the distant one the one from

291
00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:21,950
afar the second guard RR the Great God

292
00:12:28,030 --> 00:12:24,530
or could be Thoth it could be whose

293
00:12:31,900 --> 00:12:28,040
thrice great as you know the old ideas

294
00:12:33,310 --> 00:12:31,910
of Hermes being thrice great and so you

295
00:12:35,530 --> 00:12:33,320
have these two connections and you have

296
00:12:37,510 --> 00:12:35,540
this sailor character now the Sailor is

297
00:12:39,550 --> 00:12:37,520
probably a navigator more than a sailor

298
00:12:41,260 --> 00:12:39,560
we imagine so he would be associated

299
00:12:44,290 --> 00:12:41,270
with a later god called wept wah wet

300
00:12:47,950 --> 00:12:44,300
who's the opener of the ways so they are

301
00:12:51,370 --> 00:12:47,960
probably early names for these gods we

302
00:12:54,060 --> 00:12:51,380
know of you know horror stuff and then

303
00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:54,070
of course you've got wet were wet so

304
00:12:59,820 --> 00:12:57,130
this is a very very early version of the

305
00:13:00,960 --> 00:12:59,830
story of creation and we're talking

306
00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:00,970
about them coming from a place called

307
00:13:07,170 --> 00:13:03,760
the Isle of flame now the Isle of flame

308
00:13:08,910 --> 00:13:07,180
is when you stand dawn and you look

309
00:13:12,090 --> 00:13:08,920
towards the east you see the Sun rising

310
00:13:13,950 --> 00:13:12,100
and the glow on the horizon that's what

311
00:13:15,690 --> 00:13:13,960
the Egyptians termed the Isle of flame

312
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:15,700
or light land was another expression

313
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:18,010
they used so we're clearly associated

314
00:13:22,380 --> 00:13:20,170
with something from the east which is

315
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:22,390
where the Egyptians concede resurrection

316
00:13:25,980 --> 00:13:24,730
so you die and you're buried in the West

317
00:13:27,780 --> 00:13:25,990
which is the land of the dead

318
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:27,790
you're then travel through the

319
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:29,920
underworld and you rise on the eastern

320
00:13:33,870 --> 00:13:31,930
horizon reborn as it were resurrected

321
00:13:35,970 --> 00:13:33,880
for your journey across the sky in the

322
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:35,980
daytime just like the Sun dies in the

323
00:13:41,100 --> 00:13:38,890
western rises in the east so the concept

324
00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:41,110
that the Egyptians had was of a primeval

325
00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:44,710
mound of creation in light land in the

326
00:13:49,470 --> 00:13:46,570
east towards the east from Egyptian

327
00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:49,480
perspective okay so you look from the

328
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:51,910
east from from West which is Egypt

329
00:13:56,490 --> 00:13:53,530
towards the east and that's where you

330
00:13:57,780 --> 00:13:56,500
find light land and refer east I know

331
00:13:59,810 --> 00:13:57,790
that there is that there are some

332
00:14:02,040 --> 00:13:59,820
researchers who are speculating that

333
00:14:04,020 --> 00:14:02,050
this either could have been some land

334
00:14:07,730 --> 00:14:04,030
whether we're dealing with a I currently

335
00:14:10,820 --> 00:14:07,740
submerged land or in and around the

336
00:14:15,780 --> 00:14:10,830
Indonesian area or it could have been

337
00:14:17,580 --> 00:14:15,790
literally a land between Africa and the

338
00:14:22,530 --> 00:14:17,590
Arabian Peninsula which during the last

339
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:22,540
ice age was above water the well sorry I

340
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:24,130
think you can go a lot more simple than

341
00:14:31,530 --> 00:14:28,570
that there was an island which according

342
00:14:33,690 --> 00:14:31,540
to submit Sumerian mythology and legend

343
00:14:35,610 --> 00:14:33,700
and the Sumerian Kings list was the

344
00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:35,620
first place on earth where kingship came

345
00:14:39,270 --> 00:14:37,510
down from heaven descended from heaven

346
00:14:42,090 --> 00:14:39,280
and that's the place where the first

347
00:14:44,580 --> 00:14:42,100
temple was built in the world as well

348
00:14:47,010 --> 00:14:44,590
according to Sumerian mythology and that

349
00:14:49,110 --> 00:14:47,020
location is a place called era do which

350
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:49,120
is in the southern part of Iraq in the

351
00:14:53,310 --> 00:14:51,250
marshland area just to the north of the

352
00:14:56,340 --> 00:14:53,320
Persian Gulf or the arabian gulf and

353
00:14:58,200 --> 00:14:56,350
that was the primeval city on earth as

354
00:15:00,810 --> 00:14:58,210
far as the Sumerians of Mesopotamia were

355
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:00,820
concerned now it was surrounded it was

356
00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:03,850
called nun ki that was the Sumerian term

357
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:06,160
for this place arey do non key means the

358
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:07,570
mighty place

359
00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:10,330
now Nonna is a word that appears also in

360
00:15:15,060 --> 00:15:12,370
the Egyptian mythology for creation -

361
00:15:17,460 --> 00:15:15,070
because the primeval mound is surrounded

362
00:15:19,100 --> 00:15:17,470
by the waters of none in the Egyptian

363
00:15:22,110 --> 00:15:19,110
tech so there is an association between

364
00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:22,120
none of Egypt the primeval abyss as it

365
00:15:26,700 --> 00:15:24,910
were the waters of chaos and none which

366
00:15:29,340 --> 00:15:26,710
was actually in era due which was also a

367
00:15:32,370 --> 00:15:29,350
freshwater abyss or primeval swamp

368
00:15:34,110 --> 00:15:32,380
around with which surrounded a circular

369
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:34,120
island upon which the first temple in

370
00:15:37,770 --> 00:15:36,010
the world was built the first ziggurat

371
00:15:39,780 --> 00:15:37,780
was built there so there may be in a

372
00:15:41,370 --> 00:15:39,790
direct association between Mesopotamia

373
00:15:45,170 --> 00:15:41,380
and Egypt rather than looking further

374
00:15:48,060 --> 00:15:45,180
afield and I know that one of your your

375
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:48,070
first specials dealt specifically with

376
00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:51,250
finding the Garden of Eden or at least

377
00:15:55,710 --> 00:15:53,920
the traditional area for the Garden of

378
00:15:58,620 --> 00:15:55,720
Eden within within the old Sumerian

379
00:16:01,220 --> 00:15:58,630
lands if we're dealing with that part of

380
00:16:04,830 --> 00:16:01,230
the world the Levant as well as the the

381
00:16:08,130 --> 00:16:04,840
Persian Peninsula have you run into any

382
00:16:11,730 --> 00:16:08,140
obstacles or opposition from either

383
00:16:14,130 --> 00:16:11,740
government or political groups I should

384
00:16:17,010 --> 00:16:14,140
say with trying to link those areas

385
00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:17,020
together historically no not at all the

386
00:16:21,900 --> 00:16:18,510
opposite of what happened when I was

387
00:16:23,250 --> 00:16:21,910
going out to Iran ancient Persia and I

388
00:16:25,980 --> 00:16:23,260
was traveling up to the Zagros Mountains

389
00:16:27,660 --> 00:16:25,990
on several expeditions through Kurdistan

390
00:16:29,550 --> 00:16:27,670
and Lauriston and all those areas and

391
00:16:31,860 --> 00:16:29,560
going up to the area which I believe is

392
00:16:34,620 --> 00:16:31,870
the location of Eden Idina in the

393
00:16:37,950 --> 00:16:34,630
Sumerian which means uncultivated land

394
00:16:39,630 --> 00:16:37,960
area like a plain as it were and we were

395
00:16:41,130 --> 00:16:39,640
doing a lot of work in that area and all

396
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:41,140
the top and him seemed to fit very well

397
00:16:47,220 --> 00:16:43,330
with the original story in the second

398
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:47,230
chapter of Genesis it got published

399
00:16:50,430 --> 00:16:48,610
obviously the book legend the genesis of

400
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:50,440
civilization and I got contacted by an

401
00:16:56,100 --> 00:16:53,290
American who was an entrepreneur and he

402
00:16:58,230 --> 00:16:56,110
said he wanted to bottle the water from

403
00:17:00,720 --> 00:16:58,240
Eden my location I'd found because

404
00:17:02,100 --> 00:17:00,730
there's a sacred spring there on the

405
00:17:04,860 --> 00:17:02,110
mountain Kula mountain of the chalice

406
00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:04,870
which was a volcano where a water flowed

407
00:17:08,790 --> 00:17:07,360
down into the a chichi valley which is

408
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:08,800
what I believe to be the Garden of Eden

409
00:17:13,770 --> 00:17:11,170
location and he said he wanted to bottle

410
00:17:16,140 --> 00:17:13,780
this water and call Eden water so he

411
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:16,150
sought approval from the government in

412
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:18,400
Iran and he got approval from the

413
00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:20,050
Ayatollah who's the head of the

414
00:17:24,519 --> 00:17:21,049
government

415
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:24,529
Leader of Iran today to say that he

416
00:17:28,539 --> 00:17:26,089
approved the idea because he agreed with

417
00:17:30,519 --> 00:17:28,549
the location of Eden being in what we

418
00:17:32,499 --> 00:17:30,529
call today Western Azerbaijan so that's

419
00:17:34,989 --> 00:17:32,509
the the westernmost part northwest of

420
00:17:36,789 --> 00:17:34,999
most part of Iran today and near the

421
00:17:38,859 --> 00:17:36,799
city of Tabriz so we actually got

422
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:38,869
approval from that the Iranian

423
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:40,970
government for this American to go ahead

424
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:43,129
and bottle this water and sell it all

425
00:17:46,479 --> 00:17:44,480
around the world and the nd didn't

426
00:17:48,759 --> 00:17:46,489
actually do it but the approval was

427
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:48,769
there from the government which was very

428
00:17:52,509 --> 00:17:50,090
interesting because I know that at least

429
00:17:54,609 --> 00:17:52,519
didn't in media and if you're on social

430
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:54,619
media today then there seems to be lot

431
00:17:58,419 --> 00:17:56,450
of division when it comes to something

432
00:18:00,039 --> 00:17:58,429
as simple and basic as faith and I

433
00:18:01,779 --> 00:18:00,049
understand faith can be very personal

434
00:18:03,369 --> 00:18:01,789
thing and it can be very different than

435
00:18:07,889 --> 00:18:03,379
than religion which is more of an

436
00:18:10,539 --> 00:18:07,899
organized belief in something but still

437
00:18:12,340 --> 00:18:10,549
this would be more of an example of what

438
00:18:14,379 --> 00:18:12,350
it's supposed to be which is something

439
00:18:17,710 --> 00:18:14,389
that's a unifying and positive force

440
00:18:21,849 --> 00:18:17,720
that this idea of history and that faith

441
00:18:23,590 --> 00:18:21,859
being combined can you'll bridge the gap

442
00:18:24,989 --> 00:18:23,600
between two cultures which have been at

443
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:24,999
odds politically for a very long time

444
00:18:31,330 --> 00:18:28,730
yeah basically the foundation of faith

445
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:31,340
has to be history because faith is based

446
00:18:36,580 --> 00:18:34,129
on books like the Bible or the Koran or

447
00:18:38,649 --> 00:18:36,590
whatever which stealth stories about the

448
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:38,659
past and and without those books there

449
00:18:44,619 --> 00:18:41,330
would be no religion of faith basically

450
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:44,629
a mini you know it's it's like if it's

451
00:18:48,789 --> 00:18:46,970
fantasy if it's legend well no legend is

452
00:18:51,279 --> 00:18:48,799
probably based on reality but if it's

453
00:18:53,710 --> 00:18:51,289
myth or mythology or fantasy then you're

454
00:18:55,570 --> 00:18:53,720
basically you know the people who who

455
00:18:57,430 --> 00:18:55,580
use those books for their worship for

456
00:19:00,159 --> 00:18:57,440
their for their faith for their belief

457
00:19:02,259 --> 00:19:00,169
systems would be effectively reading a

458
00:19:04,450 --> 00:19:02,269
Harry Potter novel and and worshiping

459
00:19:06,639 --> 00:19:04,460
that but you know because they we have

460
00:19:09,039 --> 00:19:06,649
to find the evidence that's in those

461
00:19:10,599 --> 00:19:09,049
books to confirm them to ratify them as

462
00:19:13,269 --> 00:19:10,609
it were which i think is a legitimate

463
00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:13,279
exercise to do then if you can actually

464
00:19:18,310 --> 00:19:15,200
demonstrate that there is historical

465
00:19:20,169 --> 00:19:18,320
veracity within those stories and it's

466
00:19:23,139 --> 00:19:20,179
got a framework of history then it

467
00:19:25,239 --> 00:19:23,149
supports and reinforces those people who

468
00:19:26,109 --> 00:19:25,249
have faith it's not blind faith we're

469
00:19:27,729 --> 00:19:26,119
dealing with here it's actually

470
00:19:29,739 --> 00:19:27,739
intelligent faith which we should be

471
00:19:31,869 --> 00:19:29,749
looking at in other words you have to

472
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:31,879
have a basis of foundation of history in

473
00:19:36,519 --> 00:19:33,770
order to have a belief system

474
00:19:39,070 --> 00:19:36,529
and what about in in in Egypt

475
00:19:41,620 --> 00:19:39,080
specifically it has this have you run to

476
00:19:44,409 --> 00:19:41,630
the same positive attitude or has there

477
00:19:48,279 --> 00:19:44,419
been any issues linking the let's say

478
00:19:52,090 --> 00:19:48,289
the Exodus or any of the post Exodus or

479
00:19:53,350 --> 00:19:52,100
soldiering right after this it's a

480
00:19:55,630 --> 00:19:53,360
little bit different in Egypt cuz the

481
00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:55,640
politics is quite different there as you

482
00:19:58,930 --> 00:19:57,440
probably know and I'm sure your your

483
00:20:01,840 --> 00:19:58,940
listeners will be well aware there's

484
00:20:04,450 --> 00:20:01,850
been a sort of king of the media and

485
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:04,460
archaeology in Egypt for many many years

486
00:20:09,610 --> 00:20:06,890
cause Zaheer wass who's no longer in

487
00:20:13,060 --> 00:20:09,620
power thank goodness and he controlled

488
00:20:15,370 --> 00:20:13,070
access to the media in Egypt access to

489
00:20:17,710 --> 00:20:15,380
the site so if you wanted to film a

490
00:20:19,299 --> 00:20:17,720
documentary or film particular site you

491
00:20:23,380 --> 00:20:19,309
had to go through him to get permission

492
00:20:24,730 --> 00:20:23,390
and so he always insisted that if the

493
00:20:26,919 --> 00:20:24,740
show was going to be filmed in Egypt

494
00:20:28,510 --> 00:20:26,929
then he would be in the show we had to

495
00:20:30,279 --> 00:20:28,520
be in the show so his face would appear

496
00:20:32,110 --> 00:20:30,289
in virtually every single National

497
00:20:35,590 --> 00:20:32,120
Geographic or Discovery Channel or

498
00:20:37,630 --> 00:20:35,600
History Channel documentary he became

499
00:20:39,190 --> 00:20:37,640
very famous very well-known and he of

500
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:39,200
course he toured in in America and

501
00:20:44,110 --> 00:20:41,690
lectured to huge audiences but he had

502
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:44,120
control of the whole thing and so if you

503
00:20:48,639 --> 00:20:46,850
didn't agree or if he didn't agree with

504
00:20:50,380 --> 00:20:48,649
the of the storyline that you were

505
00:20:52,149 --> 00:20:50,390
submitting for your film documentary

506
00:20:54,220 --> 00:20:52,159
then he would forbid you to be filmed

507
00:20:56,799 --> 00:20:54,230
there filming there and so anything to

508
00:20:58,870 --> 00:20:56,809
do with what he would call the Jews he

509
00:21:00,039 --> 00:20:58,880
would ban in Egypt he wouldn't you were

510
00:21:01,870 --> 00:21:00,049
not allowed to film anything to do with

511
00:21:03,610 --> 00:21:01,880
the Israelites or the exodus or Moses or

512
00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:03,620
anything like that you had to go to

513
00:21:07,299 --> 00:21:05,360
Morocco to film those programs and

514
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:07,309
that's what the BBC did I thought I went

515
00:21:11,740 --> 00:21:08,690
with the BBC to Morocco to film a

516
00:21:14,230 --> 00:21:11,750
documentary on Moses so you end up in a

517
00:21:16,990 --> 00:21:14,240
situation where Egypt will refute or

518
00:21:19,299 --> 00:21:17,000
deny access to anybody who wants to film

519
00:21:22,330 --> 00:21:19,309
any of the stories related to the book

520
00:21:24,850 --> 00:21:22,340
of Genesis or the books of Exodus so it

521
00:21:26,889 --> 00:21:24,860
was impossible until he disappeared as

522
00:21:28,450 --> 00:21:26,899
it were a went or went away now that

523
00:21:30,130 --> 00:21:28,460
things have changed a little it's

524
00:21:33,669 --> 00:21:30,140
interesting I've never actually been to

525
00:21:36,100 --> 00:21:33,679
Egypt to to put forward a documentary on

526
00:21:37,870 --> 00:21:36,110
the stories of the Bible since so he's

527
00:21:39,460 --> 00:21:37,880
gone but I would imagine it would be

528
00:21:42,340 --> 00:21:39,470
much easier now than it was in the past

529
00:21:46,130 --> 00:21:42,350
when we had real troubles now speaking

530
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:46,140
of differences of storyline for instance

531
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:48,090
we'll say I've been listening to a lot

532
00:21:52,669 --> 00:21:50,610
of lectures regarding ancient Egyptian

533
00:21:56,450 --> 00:21:52,679
history as well as the the the dynastic

534
00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:56,460
kings and and that overall line as well

535
00:22:01,220 --> 00:21:58,170
as contrasting it with several of your

536
00:22:03,530 --> 00:22:01,230
lectures as well as your lecture series

537
00:22:05,150 --> 00:22:03,540
your 2 DVD set which is available on the

538
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:05,160
patterns of evidence website as well as

539
00:22:08,510 --> 00:22:07,200
on Amazon the link for that is in the

540
00:22:09,380 --> 00:22:08,520
show notes ladies and gentlemen it's

541
00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:09,390
only 20 bucks

542
00:22:18,909 --> 00:22:12,510
amazing deal go check it out your mind

543
00:22:21,860 --> 00:22:18,919
will be blown and the it's it's very

544
00:22:25,549 --> 00:22:21,870
jarring to hear and I'm because I'm

545
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:25,559
going to say jarring because even as an

546
00:22:30,919 --> 00:22:28,410
individual who's been studying you know

547
00:22:33,049 --> 00:22:30,929
as a layperson biblical history since

548
00:22:34,930 --> 00:22:33,059
you know since my early days in Sunday

549
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:34,940
school when I was a five-year-old

550
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:38,730
hearing the very compelling evidence you

551
00:22:45,230 --> 00:22:41,610
give for the mistranslation of Rameses

552
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:45,240
and placing the history starting in the

553
00:22:50,210 --> 00:22:47,730
13th dynasty if I'm not mistaken correct

554
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:50,220
and then hearing an individual come

555
00:22:54,980 --> 00:22:51,600
forward and say no this was actually

556
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:54,990
during the 19th dynasty and they can

557
00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:56,970
still produce a lot of evidence it's

558
00:23:00,770 --> 00:22:58,880
just they have not been able to produce

559
00:23:03,020 --> 00:23:00,780
they've not been able to produce the

560
00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:03,030
same compelling evidence as you've been

561
00:23:13,180 --> 00:23:08,640
able to yeah the story the most amazing

562
00:23:15,530 --> 00:23:13,190
being the discovery of Joshua's

563
00:23:17,659 --> 00:23:15,540
residence as it were and to Joseph

564
00:23:20,210 --> 00:23:17,669
JoJo's resin Joseph yes

565
00:23:22,070 --> 00:23:20,220
well the trouble is that if you if you

566
00:23:23,299 --> 00:23:22,080
go along the ramasees Exodus theory line

567
00:23:26,510 --> 00:23:23,309
in other words that the exodus took

568
00:23:28,940 --> 00:23:26,520
place in around 1250 BC the time of

569
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:28,950
ramses ii and you look for the evidence

570
00:23:33,919 --> 00:23:31,530
in egypt of a large population of

571
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:33,929
Semites people speaking semitic language

572
00:23:38,090 --> 00:23:36,690
in that area you don't find it you don't

573
00:23:40,130 --> 00:23:38,100
find a abundance at all or when you go

574
00:23:42,409 --> 00:23:40,140
across to israel and you look for

575
00:23:44,330 --> 00:23:42,419
evidence of a destroyed jericho or a

576
00:23:47,450 --> 00:23:44,340
conquest of the promised land you find

577
00:23:49,070 --> 00:23:47,460
again no evidence for it so it's it's

578
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:49,080
means that you have a whole group of

579
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:50,730
archaeologists and historians now we say

580
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:52,410
that these stories never happened they

581
00:23:56,150 --> 00:23:54,450
didn't exist there was no exodus out of

582
00:23:57,740 --> 00:23:56,160
Egypt there was no large population of

583
00:23:59,450 --> 00:23:57,750
Semites living in Egypt at that time

584
00:23:59,930 --> 00:23:59,460
there was no conquest of the promised

585
00:24:01,759 --> 00:23:59,940
land

586
00:24:04,610 --> 00:24:01,769
all thing is a fable that's basically

587
00:24:07,669 --> 00:24:04,620
the standard secular argument now for

588
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:07,679
the ramasees Exodus theory what I did

589
00:24:11,149 --> 00:24:09,570
was I said well hang on a minute let's

590
00:24:13,519 --> 00:24:11,159
look for a time when Jericho was

591
00:24:15,350 --> 00:24:13,529
destroyed and we do have the site of

592
00:24:16,759 --> 00:24:15,360
Jericho know where it was and the the

593
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:16,769
big city of Jericho was destroyed at the

594
00:24:21,350 --> 00:24:18,480
end the middle Bronze Age now Rama

595
00:24:24,049 --> 00:24:21,360
ceases Late Bronze Age King Pharaoh so

596
00:24:25,850 --> 00:24:24,059
it's when Rama sees was around there was

597
00:24:27,889 --> 00:24:25,860
no Jericho Jericho was just an abandoned

598
00:24:29,450 --> 00:24:27,899
ruin so I went back to the the date when

599
00:24:31,249 --> 00:24:29,460
the city was destroyed in the middle

600
00:24:32,629 --> 00:24:31,259
Bronze Age and I looked then back

601
00:24:34,999 --> 00:24:32,639
towards Egypt and I found a huge

602
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:35,009
population of Semites or we call Western

603
00:24:39,649 --> 00:24:37,440
Asiatics living in the eastern dealt

604
00:24:42,110 --> 00:24:39,659
revision where the Bible calls the land

605
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:42,120
of Goshen and that's the area where we

606
00:24:46,460 --> 00:24:44,250
have the the tomb of Joseph we have the

607
00:24:49,039 --> 00:24:46,470
the palace of Joseph we have a residence

608
00:24:52,159 --> 00:24:49,049
for Jacob's father we have a small

609
00:24:53,539 --> 00:24:52,169
village of Semites suddenly appearing at

610
00:24:55,700 --> 00:24:53,549
the end of the 12th dynasty and growing

611
00:24:58,879 --> 00:24:55,710
to the huge city of around 30,000 people

612
00:25:00,769 --> 00:24:58,889
and then they suddenly all disappear I

613
00:25:03,740 --> 00:25:00,779
mean the the Asiatic quarter just

614
00:25:05,299 --> 00:25:03,750
empties and there's no trace of them the

615
00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:05,309
city is sort of abandoned for a period

616
00:25:08,990 --> 00:25:06,809
of time in there in that particular area

617
00:25:11,029 --> 00:25:09,000
and then a new group of people come in

618
00:25:12,769 --> 00:25:11,039
and reoccupy it again well it seemed to

619
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:12,779
me to be very much like the story of the

620
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:15,570
Exodus so then I looked at the the

621
00:25:19,700 --> 00:25:17,970
evidence in in the promised land in in

622
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:19,710
Israel and then we did find as I say

623
00:25:23,899 --> 00:25:20,970
that the Jericho was destroyed at that

624
00:25:26,090 --> 00:25:23,909
time hat saw was was occupied at that

625
00:25:28,340 --> 00:25:26,100
time were destroyed we find the city of

626
00:25:31,129 --> 00:25:28,350
Shiloh the place where the Ark was kept

627
00:25:33,110 --> 00:25:31,139
was suddenly inaugurated at that time so

628
00:25:35,990 --> 00:25:33,120
it everything seems to fit perfectly and

629
00:25:38,389 --> 00:25:36,000
so then I focused on that particular era

630
00:25:40,580 --> 00:25:38,399
what we call the middle Bronze to be as

631
00:25:41,810 --> 00:25:40,590
the period of the Exodus and the

632
00:25:43,789 --> 00:25:41,820
conquest of the promised land and

633
00:25:45,049 --> 00:25:43,799
everything seemed to fit but then of

634
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:45,059
course your academics would say well

635
00:25:49,490 --> 00:25:47,129
it's impossible because we know that

636
00:25:51,710 --> 00:25:49,500
ramasees ii was the furthest because in

637
00:25:53,389 --> 00:25:51,720
the second at the first chapter of the

638
00:25:55,220 --> 00:25:53,399
book of exodus it says that the

639
00:25:57,019 --> 00:25:55,230
israelites built a city called Rameses

640
00:25:58,369 --> 00:25:57,029
and therefore if they built a city

641
00:26:00,169 --> 00:25:58,379
called Rameses there had to be in a

642
00:26:02,090 --> 00:26:00,179
pharaoh called ramasees because the name

643
00:26:03,740 --> 00:26:02,100
is the same the only problem with that

644
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:03,750
is that if you look back into the book

645
00:26:08,899 --> 00:26:06,330
of Genesis you find that Joseph settled

646
00:26:11,090 --> 00:26:08,909
his father Jacob in the land of ramasees

647
00:26:13,009 --> 00:26:11,100
which later became the land of Goshen in

648
00:26:13,670 --> 00:26:13,019
in the story now but there was never

649
00:26:15,230 --> 00:26:13,680
Aramis

650
00:26:16,820 --> 00:26:15,240
at the time of Joseph and Jacob they

651
00:26:19,610 --> 00:26:16,830
didn't come along until the 19th dynasty

652
00:26:22,010 --> 00:26:19,620
so it's what we call an anachronism it's

653
00:26:24,020 --> 00:26:22,020
not possible for a land of ramasees to

654
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:24,030
exist at the time of Joseph so equally

655
00:26:28,130 --> 00:26:25,290
if that's not possible

656
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:28,140
why should we accept the ramasees at the

657
00:26:32,660 --> 00:26:30,810
time of Moses you know again that could

658
00:26:34,430 --> 00:26:32,670
be anachronistic it should be a it could

659
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:34,440
be a later writer of the Bible or

660
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:36,210
somebody who's editing the Bible

661
00:26:40,700 --> 00:26:38,850
renaming the place according to what it

662
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:40,710
was known in his day but the name it was

663
00:26:43,790 --> 00:26:42,240
known in his day rather than the ancient

664
00:26:46,010 --> 00:26:43,800
name for the place which is the city

665
00:26:47,930 --> 00:26:46,020
underneath ramasees a city called of

666
00:26:49,970 --> 00:26:47,940
eros and that seems to be the city of

667
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:49,980
the Asiatics bigger the Western Asiatics

668
00:26:53,990 --> 00:26:51,690
because that's where we find this huge

669
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:54,000
population of Semites which suddenly

670
00:26:58,250 --> 00:26:55,890
disappear and go off to someone that

671
00:27:01,130 --> 00:26:58,260
doesn't disappear from it now there has

672
00:27:06,020 --> 00:27:01,140
been rumors and I'm hearing this in our

673
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:06,030
YouTube chat of there being discovery of

674
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:08,730
chariots in the Red Sea is there any

675
00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:11,450
credence to this oh that's a huge story

676
00:27:18,260 --> 00:27:14,130
no is the answer that's the short

677
00:27:20,780 --> 00:27:18,270
version what we got is a guy called Ron

678
00:27:23,420 --> 00:27:20,790
Wyatt who was a sort of Explorer

679
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:23,430
Christian explorer who claimed to found

680
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:25,170
all sorts of stuff he claimed to found

681
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:27,510
Noah's Ark he claimed to have found the

682
00:27:32,990 --> 00:27:30,810
city of Sodom which was destroyed you

683
00:27:35,150 --> 00:27:33,000
know as you know by this catastrophe and

684
00:27:37,190 --> 00:27:35,160
the time of Abraham he claims to have

685
00:27:39,470 --> 00:27:37,200
found the Ark of the Covenant in

686
00:27:40,940 --> 00:27:39,480
Jerusalem he claims to have met Jesus on

687
00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:40,950
a couple of occasions who came to chat

688
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:42,960
to him you know and and a lot of people

689
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:45,090
follow him a lot of people have followed

690
00:27:51,050 --> 00:27:48,090
him on this one of his main claims was

691
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:51,060
that the the crossing point this what

692
00:27:55,820 --> 00:27:52,650
the Bible calls the young saw off the

693
00:27:58,760 --> 00:27:55,830
sea of reeds was in fact the the gulf of

694
00:28:00,920 --> 00:27:58,770
aqaba in the Red Sea starting on a place

695
00:28:02,630 --> 00:28:00,930
called Norway bur in Sinai and crossing

696
00:28:04,790 --> 00:28:02,640
over to Arabia the Rebbe you peninsula

697
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:04,800
and he claimed that there was a saddle

698
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:08,010
there of a sub-sub water saddle between

699
00:28:11,930 --> 00:28:09,930
two great chasms because it's the Rift

700
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:11,940
Valley there so it's very very deep on

701
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:13,650
both sides and he says as this saddle on

702
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:15,810
the water saddle which when the waters

703
00:28:20,660 --> 00:28:17,370
parted the Israelites must have crossed

704
00:28:22,100 --> 00:28:20,670
on and then he got some divers including

705
00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:22,110
himself to go under the water and he

706
00:28:26,090 --> 00:28:23,370
claims to have found evidence of

707
00:28:27,350 --> 00:28:26,100
chariots in the water at that point well

708
00:28:30,110 --> 00:28:27,360
none of this is true

709
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:30,120
I have to say the evidence for the

710
00:28:34,850 --> 00:28:32,610
cherish does not exist you have a lot of

711
00:28:37,220 --> 00:28:34,860
coral in that area which is strange

712
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:37,230
typical it's called table coral which

713
00:28:40,310 --> 00:28:38,970
looks like sort of the chariot wheels

714
00:28:42,799 --> 00:28:40,320
and axles and things like that

715
00:28:44,450 --> 00:28:42,809
and nobody's brought any evidence out

716
00:28:47,180 --> 00:28:44,460
from the sea to actually have a physical

717
00:28:50,510 --> 00:28:47,190
artifact we can examine at any point and

718
00:28:52,900 --> 00:28:50,520
the depth of the water on that so-called

719
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:52,910
saddle is two and a half thousand feet

720
00:28:56,780 --> 00:28:55,410
now that lasts according to all the

721
00:28:58,070 --> 00:28:56,790
different surveys that have been done by

722
00:29:00,440 --> 00:28:58,080
the British Admiralty of these relished

723
00:29:04,850 --> 00:29:00,450
in the Americans now - now thousand feet

724
00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:04,860
is the same sort of height as the what's

725
00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:08,640
it called now the borscht Al Khalifa in

726
00:29:12,049 --> 00:29:10,320
Dubai which is the tallest building in

727
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:12,059
the world which is twice the height of

728
00:29:17,270 --> 00:29:13,200
the Empire State Building

729
00:29:18,890 --> 00:29:17,280
so imagine try to imagine waters parting

730
00:29:20,090 --> 00:29:18,900
which are two and a half thousand feet

731
00:29:23,330 --> 00:29:20,100
or twice the height the Empire State

732
00:29:25,130 --> 00:29:23,340
Building how realistic is that you know

733
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:25,140
we're not talking about you know there's

734
00:29:27,799 --> 00:29:26,730
a sort of epic you see in this sob

735
00:29:28,250 --> 00:29:27,809
dimille's movie we're talking about

736
00:29:30,890 --> 00:29:28,260
something

737
00:29:33,470 --> 00:29:30,900
50 times higher than that it's a

738
00:29:34,850 --> 00:29:33,480
ridiculous concept and isolde this whole

739
00:29:37,730 --> 00:29:34,860
idea and many people followed on the

740
00:29:38,900 --> 00:29:37,740
basis that there's a shallow as I say

741
00:29:40,130 --> 00:29:38,910
under water

742
00:29:41,390 --> 00:29:40,140
saddle there that you could actually

743
00:29:43,549 --> 00:29:41,400
cross through which maybe would have

744
00:29:45,590 --> 00:29:43,559
been 20 or 30 feet below the surface the

745
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:45,600
water well it's not it's two and a half

746
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:47,130
thousand feet below the surface of the

747
00:29:54,650 --> 00:29:49,890
water so there's a lot of BS going on

748
00:29:56,150 --> 00:29:54,660
with this particular theory um I'm not

749
00:30:04,039 --> 00:29:56,160
even gonna get on to the whole Nibiru

750
00:30:07,070 --> 00:30:04,049
thing which but I I've even within our

751
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:07,080
last our last episode which and again if

752
00:30:10,610 --> 00:30:09,090
you ever do speak tube of all you'll

753
00:30:12,950 --> 00:30:10,620
have to let him know that you have

754
00:30:15,860 --> 00:30:12,960
overtaken him finally you know your show

755
00:30:17,270 --> 00:30:15,870
is our top show of all time it won't

756
00:30:19,310 --> 00:30:17,280
like that very much I'll tell you that

757
00:30:20,690 --> 00:30:19,320
now well he'll just have to be able to

758
00:30:24,830 --> 00:30:20,700
come on and beat your record I guess

759
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:24,840
yeah but you were is is also one of the

760
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:26,850
most interactive where we will have

761
00:30:30,230 --> 00:30:28,410
people of all different faiths and ideas

762
00:30:32,780 --> 00:30:30,240
who will come in and give their ideas on

763
00:30:33,770 --> 00:30:32,790
the the history and one of the most

764
00:30:38,299 --> 00:30:33,780
prevalent theories that I've been

765
00:30:41,030 --> 00:30:38,309
getting in the YouTube comments is what

766
00:30:44,420 --> 00:30:41,040
was it that the angle of the slope of

767
00:30:46,370 --> 00:30:44,430
pyramid is the same angle from from

768
00:30:48,110 --> 00:30:46,380
Cairo to Jerusalem and it's not it's

769
00:30:50,330 --> 00:30:48,120
it's off by several degrees it's it's

770
00:30:53,300 --> 00:30:50,340
it's not the same distance but these

771
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:53,310
these mythology's get said did they get

772
00:31:00,650 --> 00:30:55,890
adopted and it gets propagated with it

773
00:31:03,380 --> 00:31:00,660
with very little evidence and the it's

774
00:31:05,540 --> 00:31:03,390
good to be able to believe in the

775
00:31:06,890 --> 00:31:05,550
possibility of fantastic things if you

776
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:06,900
can actually then back it up with

777
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:09,570
credible research and facts that can say

778
00:31:14,870 --> 00:31:11,850
no this is this is a possibility beyond

779
00:31:18,170 --> 00:31:14,880
just stating a fact there was well the

780
00:31:19,810 --> 00:31:18,180
trouble is facts become but it's on the

781
00:31:24,290 --> 00:31:19,820
internet that's the problem

782
00:31:25,790 --> 00:31:24,300
it is now I've gone from derision to

783
00:31:27,380 --> 00:31:25,800
just saying okay well I'm sorry you get

784
00:31:29,630 --> 00:31:27,390
no points for that one 100 points for

785
00:31:32,810 --> 00:31:29,640
gryffindor though and oh yeah carrying

786
00:31:34,190 --> 00:31:32,820
on because it you can't it's very

787
00:31:37,190 --> 00:31:34,200
difficult to be able to get somebody to

788
00:31:38,990 --> 00:31:37,200
to believe in in if somebody believes in

789
00:31:40,670 --> 00:31:39,000
something and even if you provide facts

790
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:40,680
to able to back up the opposite point it

791
00:31:47,180 --> 00:31:45,050
generally tends to what's the best term

792
00:31:50,420 --> 00:31:47,190
entrench them further into that belief

793
00:31:51,740 --> 00:31:50,430
even if it is incorrect because of

794
00:31:54,790 --> 00:31:51,750
something they may have seen on on the

795
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:54,800
internet you know for the longest time

796
00:31:58,640 --> 00:31:57,090
if well at least when I've long this

797
00:32:00,110 --> 00:31:58,650
time when I was a kid it's like I

798
00:32:02,210 --> 00:32:00,120
believe in Santa Claus and then at some

799
00:32:07,340 --> 00:32:02,220
point I stopped believing be based on

800
00:32:10,340 --> 00:32:07,350
evidence and shame on you well what's

801
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:10,350
wrong with Santa Claus then he existed

802
00:32:15,620 --> 00:32:12,090
he was a Bishop of Myra in southern

803
00:32:18,140 --> 00:32:15,630
Turkey yes and he was very good but st.

804
00:32:21,410 --> 00:32:18,150
Niklaus and he used to give coins to the

805
00:32:23,090 --> 00:32:21,420
children each year so I mean he's the

806
00:32:25,670 --> 00:32:23,100
bassist he's a called a basis in history

807
00:32:29,450 --> 00:32:25,680
this is true Croatians actually

808
00:32:31,010 --> 00:32:29,460
celebrate Saint Nicholas day only but

809
00:32:34,250 --> 00:32:31,020
remember it's a twelfth we put our shoes

810
00:32:36,170 --> 00:32:34,260
out and if we've been good we get candy

811
00:32:38,420 --> 00:32:36,180
and those gold coin chocolates which are

812
00:32:39,770 --> 00:32:38,430
fantastic and if we think bad we get

813
00:32:41,300 --> 00:32:39,780
cold you always hope for the coal

814
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:41,310
because if it's a cold winter you know

815
00:32:48,170 --> 00:32:44,970
you can heat yourself but you know that

816
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:48,180
the chocolates just as good we've got a

817
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:50,370
distinguish between legends and myths

818
00:32:54,899 --> 00:32:53,250
basically I mean you know the characters

819
00:32:57,060 --> 00:32:54,909
like Saint Nicholas son

820
00:32:59,389 --> 00:32:57,070
claws are legends they are real people

821
00:33:02,700 --> 00:32:59,399
that have had a story woven around them

822
00:33:05,310 --> 00:33:02,710
so those those are based on real events

823
00:33:06,659 --> 00:33:05,320
real historical events mythology is much

824
00:33:08,700 --> 00:33:06,669
more of the invention of the creative

825
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:08,710
mind so you know the things like the

826
00:33:12,719 --> 00:33:10,210
gods of Olympus for instance for

827
00:33:15,239 --> 00:33:12,729
argument sex or whatever it might be so

828
00:33:18,089 --> 00:33:15,249
they're created out of a fertile mind

829
00:33:20,279 --> 00:33:18,099
and they are fantasy but legends are not

830
00:33:22,889 --> 00:33:20,289
fantasy just elaborations upon history

831
00:33:25,139 --> 00:33:22,899
that's what they really are and with

832
00:33:28,849 --> 00:33:25,149
regards to the to the Pharaohs of Egypt

833
00:33:32,789 --> 00:33:28,859
and a lot of the mythology from the

834
00:33:34,789 --> 00:33:32,799
early to Old Kingdom mm-hmm the idea of

835
00:33:38,159 --> 00:33:34,799
the first answer that the first King

836
00:33:42,779 --> 00:33:38,169
yeah his name was I'm showing here there

837
00:33:45,539 --> 00:33:42,789
was a neighbor or a Samet no I'm are

838
00:33:47,909 --> 00:33:45,549
you're thinking no I'm a nama is an old

839
00:33:50,489 --> 00:33:47,919
idea as the first king of the first

840
00:33:53,399 --> 00:33:50,499
dynasty the classical name from is

841
00:33:55,169 --> 00:33:53,409
many's a me NES or many in Egyptian

842
00:33:57,509 --> 00:33:55,179
that's the name that appears on the

843
00:33:59,249 --> 00:33:57,519
about a by dos Kings list where you get

844
00:34:01,680 --> 00:33:59,259
the first king of the first dynasty

845
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:01,690
called many but we now a lot of virtue

846
00:34:06,210 --> 00:34:03,970
closest now think that many is Horus AHA

847
00:34:09,359 --> 00:34:06,220
or Horus the fighter who was actually

848
00:34:11,730 --> 00:34:09,369
the son of nama and it's much more

849
00:34:13,829 --> 00:34:11,740
likely that he's actually the first king

850
00:34:15,510 --> 00:34:13,839
of the first dynasty but there's a

851
00:34:18,809 --> 00:34:15,520
dynasty before dynasty one called

852
00:34:21,029 --> 00:34:18,819
dynasty zero which has now become part

853
00:34:22,919 --> 00:34:21,039
of the ideological literature and there

854
00:34:24,450 --> 00:34:22,929
are kings in that dynasty which includes

855
00:34:26,909 --> 00:34:24,460
nama who was probably last king of

856
00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:26,919
dynasty 0 you can go back to a king

857
00:34:33,389 --> 00:34:30,159
called Horus so you actually have a

858
00:34:36,210 --> 00:34:33,399
horrors of the beginning of that

859
00:34:38,669 --> 00:34:36,220
sequence and he seems to have had some

860
00:34:41,490 --> 00:34:38,679
relationship to the idea of this this

861
00:34:44,700 --> 00:34:41,500
idea of Horus being the first king maybe

862
00:34:46,799 --> 00:34:44,710
Osiris and that this sort of like era of

863
00:34:48,869 --> 00:34:46,809
the beginnings of kingship in Egypt goes

864
00:34:51,779 --> 00:34:48,879
back to what we call in the card of 3 or

865
00:34:54,210 --> 00:34:51,789
the the Naqada 3 period which is just

866
00:34:56,460 --> 00:34:54,220
before the first dynasty begins so about

867
00:34:59,039 --> 00:34:56,470
so 80 200 years before the first dynasty

868
00:35:00,900 --> 00:34:59,049
that that is the area to look at for the

869
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:00,910
beginnings of veronik civilization in

870
00:35:04,349 --> 00:35:02,890
Egypt rather than the first dynasty the

871
00:35:06,180 --> 00:35:04,359
first industry is much more about the

872
00:35:07,290 --> 00:35:06,190
establishment of control of the whole

873
00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:07,300
land

874
00:35:11,460 --> 00:35:09,250
at that period but there are veronik

875
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:11,470
Kings hores Kings before that for about

876
00:35:17,940 --> 00:35:14,290
a hundred years and for a lot of the the

877
00:35:22,110 --> 00:35:17,950
dates for some of their I'm going to say

878
00:35:24,900 --> 00:35:22,120
they're there the lengths of their lives

879
00:35:26,910 --> 00:35:24,910
yeah isn't the Kings list in in Egypt

880
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:26,920
very similar in in terms of its theme

881
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:29,170
with regards to very long life as it is

882
00:35:33,780 --> 00:35:32,170
in Sumer in the Turan Canon and in

883
00:35:36,660 --> 00:35:33,790
Maynooth oh yes you have these

884
00:35:38,370 --> 00:35:36,670
extraordinary ages for the demigods and

885
00:35:40,260 --> 00:35:38,380
the gods but rather than the Kings so

886
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:40,270
much but in Mesopotamia the Sumerian

887
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:43,210
king list we have very very great ages

888
00:35:48,210 --> 00:35:45,610
for the early kings of Mesopotamia the

889
00:35:49,710 --> 00:35:48,220
pre-flood kings similar to what you have

890
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:49,720
in the book of Genesis for the early

891
00:35:56,070 --> 00:35:52,570
patriarchs as well so that's a hard one

892
00:35:57,930 --> 00:35:56,080
to explain really I mean the probably

893
00:35:59,730 --> 00:35:57,940
the most likely explanation is we're

894
00:36:02,790 --> 00:35:59,740
talking about what we call eponymous

895
00:36:03,630 --> 00:36:02,800
ancestors in other words the founder of

896
00:36:05,070 --> 00:36:03,640
a dynasty

897
00:36:08,250 --> 00:36:05,080
so the dynasty would be named after an

898
00:36:09,810 --> 00:36:08,260
individual who may reign for 300 years

899
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:09,820
but in fact he's not him that's running

900
00:36:12,690 --> 00:36:10,720
for 300 years

901
00:36:14,940 --> 00:36:12,700
it's his dynasty that reigns for 300

902
00:36:17,100 --> 00:36:14,950
years and the dynasty is named after him

903
00:36:18,990 --> 00:36:17,110
because he's the first of the dynasty so

904
00:36:21,930 --> 00:36:19,000
that's a slot that's one explanation for

905
00:36:23,340 --> 00:36:21,940
these these longevity and it might be

906
00:36:25,590 --> 00:36:23,350
the same in the book of Genesis it may

907
00:36:27,540 --> 00:36:25,600
well be that these early patriarchs

908
00:36:30,510 --> 00:36:27,550
these things like Mahfouz learn and

909
00:36:32,820 --> 00:36:30,520
others are simply the the founders of

910
00:36:34,260 --> 00:36:32,830
dynasties the eponymous ancestors of

911
00:36:38,070 --> 00:36:34,270
dynasties and therefore they're not

912
00:36:40,260 --> 00:36:38,080
actually living for 900 years and how

913
00:36:42,060 --> 00:36:40,270
many actually this is a very good

914
00:36:43,170 --> 00:36:42,070
question I know that I have the answer

915
00:36:45,150 --> 00:36:43,180
in front of me that a lot of people out

916
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:45,160
there may may wonder how many dynasties

917
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:48,330
are there at least accepted whether in

918
00:36:55,020 --> 00:36:52,450
your realm of of Egyptology to even be

919
00:36:58,320 --> 00:36:55,030
accepted realm of Egyptology well

920
00:37:00,270 --> 00:36:58,330
officially that's about 31 but if you

921
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:00,280
include thickness t0 that makes 32 and

922
00:37:04,860 --> 00:37:01,810
that you know that takes us to their

923
00:37:07,220 --> 00:37:04,870
period when the Roman Empire took over

924
00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:07,230
with Julius Caesar coming to Egypt and

925
00:37:11,130 --> 00:37:09,730
and that becomes then a proper edge it

926
00:37:13,350 --> 00:37:11,140
becomes a province of room so we don't

927
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:13,360
officially have a dynasty for the Roman

928
00:37:17,430 --> 00:37:15,490
emperors in Egypt but their Ptolemy is

929
00:37:20,620 --> 00:37:17,440
the great the Greek pharaohs who came

930
00:37:22,630 --> 00:37:20,630
from the northern Greece Macedonia that

931
00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:22,640
an official dynasty in lots of digits

932
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:24,710
dynasty of Egypt and Cleopatra was the

933
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:27,170
last Pharaoh if you like of those

934
00:37:32,230 --> 00:37:29,090
dynasties then when the tivities came to

935
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:32,240
an end so you could say that the king of

936
00:37:36,100 --> 00:37:34,370
the first king of the Darracq dynasty

937
00:37:38,290 --> 00:37:36,110
zero all the way down to Cleopatra is

938
00:37:42,310 --> 00:37:38,300
the total dynastic period in Egyptian

939
00:37:45,130 --> 00:37:42,320
history now for for the I'm gonna say

940
00:37:50,350 --> 00:37:45,140
the way that's the power was either

941
00:37:54,750 --> 00:37:50,360
shared or was disseminated between the

942
00:37:58,660 --> 00:37:54,760
ruling houses was was the ruling class

943
00:38:01,810 --> 00:37:58,670
patriarchal or matriarchal in nature in

944
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:01,820
Egypt it was patriarchal although we do

945
00:38:05,230 --> 00:38:03,770
have probably four or five female

946
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:05,240
Pharaohs throughout the time but they're

947
00:38:10,330 --> 00:38:07,370
basically when there is no son to

948
00:38:12,220 --> 00:38:10,340
succeed the throne so a daughter becomes

949
00:38:13,990 --> 00:38:12,230
pharaoh and usually that causes the

950
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:14,000
collapse of a dynasty that's what

951
00:38:17,050 --> 00:38:15,410
usually usually happened it happened at

952
00:38:18,490 --> 00:38:17,060
the end of the 12th dynasty we have

953
00:38:20,740 --> 00:38:18,500
queen hatshepsut of course is very

954
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:20,750
famous who usurped the throne we think

955
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:23,090
from the rightful heir which it was a

956
00:38:27,490 --> 00:38:25,610
young boy called foot most the third and

957
00:38:29,230 --> 00:38:27,500
then he took over again and hashable

958
00:38:31,150 --> 00:38:29,240
disappeared and then we have of course

959
00:38:33,070 --> 00:38:31,160
Cleopatra further on and we have Taos

960
00:38:34,830 --> 00:38:33,080
it's at the end of the nineteenth

961
00:38:36,670 --> 00:38:34,840
dynasty so there's a tendency for

962
00:38:38,290 --> 00:38:36,680
dynasties to come to an end with the

963
00:38:40,810 --> 00:38:38,300
female pharaoh so it wasn't good thing

964
00:38:42,790 --> 00:38:40,820
to be a female pharaoh to be honest the

965
00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:42,800
book then women were respected greatly

966
00:38:47,380 --> 00:38:44,510
in Egypt it's just they didn't hold the

967
00:38:48,790 --> 00:38:47,390
chains of power as it were most of the

968
00:38:51,190 --> 00:38:48,800
time but I would say it was a

969
00:38:52,510 --> 00:38:51,200
patriarchal system that they had and I

970
00:38:54,940 --> 00:38:52,520
think you could say that for pretty much

971
00:38:59,470 --> 00:38:54,950
most of the ancient world and I know

972
00:39:02,860 --> 00:38:59,480
that also with Egypt especially in two

973
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:02,870
periods of time one which is related to

974
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:06,170
the patterns of evidence series one is

975
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:08,330
before that there are two intermediate

976
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:11,690
periods between the old and middle and

977
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:16,090
the middle and new kingdoms what what

978
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:17,930
well first of all play their

979
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:20,090
intermediate period what what's the the

980
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:22,370
reason for naming them these and exactly

981
00:39:28,210 --> 00:39:25,610
what happened during this time well you

982
00:39:30,250 --> 00:39:28,220
have kingdoms which is old bitl and new

983
00:39:32,590 --> 00:39:30,260
Oh King the Middle Kingdom you Kingdom

984
00:39:34,060 --> 00:39:32,600
their air is when the entire land of

985
00:39:36,430 --> 00:39:34,070
Egypt

986
00:39:37,810 --> 00:39:36,440
it goes from north to south or from from

987
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:37,820
south to north if you think of the flow

988
00:39:41,500 --> 00:39:40,010
of the river it's just a strip of land

989
00:39:43,450 --> 00:39:41,510
first I'll have Assad the river and you

990
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:43,460
got desert on either side of that so the

991
00:39:47,980 --> 00:39:46,130
deserts weren't part of Egypt the egypt

992
00:39:50,710 --> 00:39:47,990
was called chemi okay met which means

993
00:39:53,260 --> 00:39:50,720
the Blackland and most egyptologists

994
00:39:56,230 --> 00:39:53,270
being the the fertile black soil of the

995
00:39:57,910 --> 00:39:56,240
nile valley and the delta so the land of

996
00:40:00,340 --> 00:39:57,920
eat it was very thin and narrow until it

997
00:40:03,460 --> 00:40:00,350
spread out at the Delta so it has a

998
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:03,470
linear politic basically so in the

999
00:40:08,590 --> 00:40:06,170
kingdom periods the whole entire valley

1000
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:08,600
was united under one pharaoh one king

1001
00:40:12,970 --> 00:40:10,730
ruling the entire place in the

1002
00:40:15,370 --> 00:40:12,980
intermediate periods that in between the

1003
00:40:16,930 --> 00:40:15,380
kingdom periods you have periods where

1004
00:40:19,090 --> 00:40:16,940
the land divides up into smaller

1005
00:40:20,860 --> 00:40:19,100
kingdoms with their own pharaohs or

1006
00:40:22,570 --> 00:40:20,870
their own rulers so you have a ruler in

1007
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:22,580
than in the north in the delta or maybe

1008
00:40:25,270 --> 00:40:23,930
two rulers up there you'd have one in

1009
00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:25,280
middle Egypt you have one in the south

1010
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:26,960
you would have one down in Nubia or

1011
00:40:31,300 --> 00:40:28,970
whatever so you would have the camp

1012
00:40:33,370 --> 00:40:31,310
Kingdom divided up into smaller areas

1013
00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:33,380
and they would fight each other and for

1014
00:40:36,790 --> 00:40:34,640
dominance and eventually there'd be a

1015
00:40:39,130 --> 00:40:36,800
unification again so you you know you

1016
00:40:41,260 --> 00:40:39,140
would usurp your neighbor you conquer

1017
00:40:42,820 --> 00:40:41,270
his land and you reunify the the land

1018
00:40:44,470 --> 00:40:42,830
again to become another Kingdom period

1019
00:40:46,810 --> 00:40:44,480
so that's what the three intermediate

1020
00:40:48,370 --> 00:40:46,820
periods are so you have one between the

1021
00:40:49,810 --> 00:40:48,380
old and the middle you have one between

1022
00:40:51,430 --> 00:40:49,820
the middle and the new and you have one

1023
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:51,440
at the end of the new kingdom before we

1024
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:54,170
call the late period or say period you

1025
00:40:58,810 --> 00:40:55,610
know if I'm not mistaken the the first

1026
00:41:02,470 --> 00:40:58,820
Intermediate Period lasted approximately

1027
00:41:04,780 --> 00:41:02,480
how long not long it's it's one of the

1028
00:41:07,300 --> 00:41:04,790
shorter ones at the end of the Old

1029
00:41:09,420 --> 00:41:07,310
Kingdom we don't normally think of that

1030
00:41:11,770 --> 00:41:09,430
as the sort of time of Pepi ii who is a

1031
00:41:15,580 --> 00:41:11,780
remarkable pharaoh who who reigned for

1032
00:41:17,170 --> 00:41:15,590
94 years and he didn't seem to have a

1033
00:41:19,210 --> 00:41:17,180
successor and it sort of the dynasty

1034
00:41:20,980 --> 00:41:19,220
petered out and then it broke up the

1035
00:41:24,550 --> 00:41:20,990
gland broke up into different segments

1036
00:41:27,340 --> 00:41:24,560
and we have Kings affair her accomplice

1037
00:41:29,020 --> 00:41:27,350
and kings of Memphis etc etc and then

1038
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:29,030
he's reunified again in the beginning of

1039
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:31,130
the Middle Kingdom my mentor hotep who's

1040
00:41:33,970 --> 00:41:32,450
one of the pharaohs who conquers the

1041
00:41:35,860 --> 00:41:33,980
rest of the land for him he's actually

1042
00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:35,870
based in Thebes and he conks the entire

1043
00:41:38,860 --> 00:41:37,730
land again and so then you have the 12th

1044
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:38,870
dynasty which is a very wonderful

1045
00:41:42,250 --> 00:41:41,090
dynasty and the thirty ten st and then

1046
00:41:44,650 --> 00:41:42,260
you have the collapse of Egyptian

1047
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:44,660
civilization again when the Hyksos come

1048
00:41:47,980 --> 00:41:47,570
in from the east from the Levant they

1049
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:47,990
come

1050
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:50,330
to sign and they conquer Egypt for about

1051
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:51,770
a period of 100 and something years

1052
00:41:55,330 --> 00:41:53,090
we're not sure if it's a hundred eight

1053
00:41:56,830 --> 00:41:55,340
hundred and forty years and then we have

1054
00:41:58,900 --> 00:41:56,840
the New Kingdom which is a very powerful

1055
00:42:01,090 --> 00:41:58,910
militaristic Kingdom very rich very

1056
00:42:02,590 --> 00:42:01,100
wealthy very strong Pharaohs and then at

1057
00:42:04,810 --> 00:42:02,600
the end of that at the end of the 2010s

1058
00:42:06,820 --> 00:42:04,820
we have another collapse and the the

1059
00:42:09,250 --> 00:42:06,830
land divides up into many different two

1060
00:42:11,109 --> 00:42:09,260
units as it were verónica units in

1061
00:42:13,390 --> 00:42:11,119
different parts of Egypt and that it's

1062
00:42:15,700 --> 00:42:13,400
reunified again at the beginning of the

1063
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:15,710
twenty sixth dynasty so this this is a

1064
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:17,330
cycle that would continue all the way

1065
00:42:20,500 --> 00:42:18,890
through Egyptian history you have

1066
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:20,510
unification period and you have these

1067
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:23,090
intermediate pairs in between and

1068
00:42:27,430 --> 00:42:25,330
further these the intermediate periods

1069
00:42:29,140 --> 00:42:27,440
what were these times of a great

1070
00:42:32,109 --> 00:42:29,150
upheaval you said it was the fall of

1071
00:42:35,020 --> 00:42:32,119
civilization do we have an idea of what

1072
00:42:37,780 --> 00:42:35,030
that would have been like well it's not

1073
00:42:39,460 --> 00:42:37,790
so much that civilization collapses more

1074
00:42:42,370 --> 00:42:39,470
to the fact that there's no unification

1075
00:42:44,590 --> 00:42:42,380
no unified state so you do have internal

1076
00:42:45,730 --> 00:42:44,600
wars between these quite often some of

1077
00:42:47,950 --> 00:42:45,740
them are actually relatives of each

1078
00:42:50,410 --> 00:42:47,960
other so they're fighting between each

1079
00:42:52,390 --> 00:42:50,420
other you've got smaller Kingdom and

1080
00:42:54,490 --> 00:42:52,400
what I suppose it's like is supposed to

1081
00:42:56,349 --> 00:42:54,500
like the United States orbit separate

1082
00:42:58,000 --> 00:42:56,359
states and fighting each other rather

1083
00:42:59,950 --> 00:42:58,010
than being unified under one president

1084
00:43:01,300 --> 00:42:59,960
so it's the same sort of thing that was

1085
00:43:03,700 --> 00:43:01,310
happening then it doesn't mean you have

1086
00:43:05,470 --> 00:43:03,710
a complete collapse of civilization but

1087
00:43:07,330 --> 00:43:05,480
it becomes somehow much more difficult

1088
00:43:08,890 --> 00:43:07,340
to pick to get wealth and trade because

1089
00:43:12,340 --> 00:43:08,900
you're in dispute with your neighbor

1090
00:43:13,990 --> 00:43:12,350
constantly and obviously that's never a

1091
00:43:15,430 --> 00:43:14,000
good thing especially for let's say

1092
00:43:19,090 --> 00:43:15,440
being able to feed your people or

1093
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:19,100
exactly you know large state projects

1094
00:43:23,140 --> 00:43:20,570
like building pyramids or a massive

1095
00:43:24,849 --> 00:43:23,150
tempest it's all it's almost like this

1096
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:24,859
idea trade wars that we have today that

1097
00:43:29,470 --> 00:43:27,530
you know a unified world where you have

1098
00:43:31,450 --> 00:43:29,480
trade between different nations it's

1099
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:31,460
much better than having this sort of

1100
00:43:34,750 --> 00:43:33,170
policy of aggression towards your

1101
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:34,760
neighbor and not allowing the products

1102
00:43:37,690 --> 00:43:36,170
that enable to come into the country

1103
00:43:39,930 --> 00:43:37,700
that would have been the type of thing

1104
00:43:44,020 --> 00:43:39,940
that was going on in Egypt at the time

1105
00:43:46,900 --> 00:43:44,030
and for the Middle Kingdom yeah what was

1106
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:46,910
this period of time you know I should

1107
00:43:53,050 --> 00:43:49,210
say what was it known as or known for

1108
00:43:55,750 --> 00:43:53,060
it's known for the humaneness of the

1109
00:43:57,700 --> 00:43:55,760
kings I think they all Kingdom is all

1110
00:43:59,650 --> 00:43:57,710
about huge monuments massive pyramids

1111
00:44:01,420 --> 00:43:59,660
etc big egos and then yeah the Middle

1112
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:01,430
Kingdom is much more about more the

1113
00:44:05,559 --> 00:44:03,650
humanity of the Pharaohs and and it's

1114
00:44:08,620 --> 00:44:05,569
famous for its poetry and literature and

1115
00:44:10,630 --> 00:44:08,630
its art so the carvings and reliefs are

1116
00:44:12,670 --> 00:44:10,640
beautiful that the poetry is lovely the

1117
00:44:15,010 --> 00:44:12,680
the writings are wonderful we had great

1118
00:44:17,799 --> 00:44:15,020
stories from the Middle Kingdom that are

1119
00:44:19,180 --> 00:44:17,809
used by students who learn to read

1120
00:44:21,790 --> 00:44:19,190
Egyptian hieroglyphs they use Middle

1121
00:44:23,740 --> 00:44:21,800
Kingdom text to do that and and and the

1122
00:44:26,589 --> 00:44:23,750
statues the fairs are not huge you know

1123
00:44:29,470 --> 00:44:26,599
monoliths and you get individualism

1124
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:29,480
going on in this period so it's regarded

1125
00:44:34,059 --> 00:44:31,010
by many Egyptologists as the sort of

1126
00:44:35,980 --> 00:44:34,069
like the culmination of civilization in

1127
00:44:37,329 --> 00:44:35,990
Egyptian terms then of course we get the

1128
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:37,339
New Kingdom which is more about power

1129
00:44:41,230 --> 00:44:39,290
and wealth and a military conquest

1130
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:41,240
that's a different type of period

1131
00:44:44,890 --> 00:44:43,490
entirely so I'm quite drawn to the

1132
00:44:47,020 --> 00:44:44,900
Middle Kingdom for that reason because I

1133
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:47,030
think is a very human era in Egyptian

1134
00:44:52,299 --> 00:44:48,890
history and the Middle Kingdom obviously

1135
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:52,309
starts with the eleventh dynasty with in

1136
00:44:55,630 --> 00:44:54,490
I'm going to butcher this probably

1137
00:44:59,410 --> 00:44:55,640
earpads

1138
00:45:02,500 --> 00:44:59,420
the elder or in teff the elder correct

1139
00:45:04,210 --> 00:45:02,510
absentee or interfere well not really

1140
00:45:08,349 --> 00:45:04,220
the Middle Kingdom starts it meant to

1141
00:45:10,270 --> 00:45:08,359
hotep the second he half of his reign

1142
00:45:11,319 --> 00:45:10,280
was when he was just king of Thebes and

1143
00:45:12,609 --> 00:45:11,329
then in the second half he's already

1144
00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:12,619
conquered the rest of the land and

1145
00:45:17,410 --> 00:45:15,680
reunified it and then there's a couple

1146
00:45:18,370 --> 00:45:17,420
more of these pharaohs and then you get

1147
00:45:21,910 --> 00:45:18,380
to the beginning the twelfth dynasty

1148
00:45:23,170 --> 00:45:21,920
with um an M hat the first now he's sort

1149
00:45:25,510 --> 00:45:23,180
of establishes a dynasty he's

1150
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:25,520
assassinated actually and his son son

1151
00:45:28,599 --> 00:45:26,930
was at the first becomes the pharaoh but

1152
00:45:29,950 --> 00:45:28,609
so you have lots of Kings called I'm an

1153
00:45:32,589 --> 00:45:29,960
M hat and lots of kings course in

1154
00:45:34,539 --> 00:45:32,599
Laurette in this era until we get to the

1155
00:45:37,660 --> 00:45:34,549
end of the dynasty where there are no

1156
00:45:39,099 --> 00:45:37,670
male heirs and Sabich nephew or neferu

1157
00:45:41,470 --> 00:45:39,109
so burg depends on which way your auntie

1158
00:45:44,260 --> 00:45:41,480
you want to read the hieroglyphs is the

1159
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:44,270
female or daughter of one of the kings

1160
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:45,770
and she becomes the last fare of the

1161
00:45:48,789 --> 00:45:46,970
dynasty and then we have the thirty

1162
00:45:50,740 --> 00:45:48,799
Tennessee starting which is a much

1163
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:50,750
smaller affair there's many many kings

1164
00:45:54,460 --> 00:45:51,770
there are only rule for a very short

1165
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:54,470
period of time each sub-layer names are

1166
00:45:59,319 --> 00:45:57,290
Asiatic or Semitic so it seems as though

1167
00:46:01,059 --> 00:45:59,329
there's been a dim unison this point of

1168
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:01,069
the 12th dynasty into something that's

1169
00:46:06,099 --> 00:46:04,130
much more broken up and unstable as it

1170
00:46:07,690 --> 00:46:06,109
were and that causes a collapse in the

1171
00:46:09,069 --> 00:46:07,700
13th dynasty at the end of the 30

1172
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:09,079
dynasty which then brings in these

1173
00:46:13,870 --> 00:46:11,690
foreign invaders the Hyksos who come in

1174
00:46:15,220 --> 00:46:13,880
across the desert and occupy Egypt and

1175
00:46:17,230 --> 00:46:15,230
really dominate the conch

1176
00:46:19,030 --> 00:46:17,240
for more than a century now I know that

1177
00:46:20,230 --> 00:46:19,040
we're going and I know everyone who's

1178
00:46:21,220 --> 00:46:20,240
gonna be freaking out right now because

1179
00:46:23,530 --> 00:46:21,230
this is the first time we've ever

1180
00:46:25,570 --> 00:46:23,540
actually done this on the show we're

1181
00:46:27,750 --> 00:46:25,580
actually to be broadcasting all across

1182
00:46:30,670 --> 00:46:27,760
North America as well as Pacifica on

1183
00:46:32,500 --> 00:46:30,680
public broadcaster radio in the coming

1184
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:32,510
week so we're actually got to start

1185
00:46:36,820 --> 00:46:34,850
doing like a mid show break at some

1186
00:46:38,620 --> 00:46:36,830
point would you only be about seven

1187
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:38,630
minutes for everyone who's out there and

1188
00:46:43,300 --> 00:46:41,570
that'll be in about five and I know for

1189
00:46:45,460 --> 00:46:43,310
that for the last half the segments that

1190
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:45,470
we're gonna be talking about the second

1191
00:46:51,070 --> 00:46:47,810
intermediate period as well as the fall

1192
00:46:54,670 --> 00:46:51,080
of the middle the Middle Kingdom and

1193
00:46:56,170 --> 00:46:54,680
yeah going on from there so everyone can

1194
00:46:58,150 --> 00:46:56,180
stick around it'll give you a chance to

1195
00:47:01,599 --> 00:46:58,160
only get grab a coffee hit hit the water

1196
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:01,609
closet but to be able to finish off this

1197
00:47:08,830 --> 00:47:05,450
segment between the new kingdoms and the

1198
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:08,840
Middle Kingdom how much of influence did

1199
00:47:17,020 --> 00:47:14,210
the priest cast have in this time not so

1200
00:47:18,580 --> 00:47:17,030
much the priestly caste are very

1201
00:47:21,190 --> 00:47:18,590
influential towards the end of the New

1202
00:47:22,359 --> 00:47:21,200
Kingdom when the the state breaks up at

1203
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:22,369
the end of the 20th dynasty of the

1204
00:47:25,540 --> 00:47:23,810
priests they become very powerful

1205
00:47:27,609 --> 00:47:25,550
especially the ones that cannot take

1206
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:27,619
priests of Amun in this period we're

1207
00:47:31,180 --> 00:47:28,850
talking about now which is the end of

1208
00:47:32,380 --> 00:47:31,190
the Middle Kingdom or they the end of

1209
00:47:34,690 --> 00:47:32,390
the 12th dynasty as the thirteen

1210
00:47:36,340 --> 00:47:34,700
Tennessee comes into power we then have

1211
00:47:38,470 --> 00:47:36,350
a great influence from not the

1212
00:47:40,630 --> 00:47:38,480
priesthood but the Vizier as the the the

1213
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:40,640
controlling prime ministers if you like

1214
00:47:45,430 --> 00:47:42,890
or Chancellor's of the land they become

1215
00:47:47,410 --> 00:47:45,440
far more dominant far more powerful and

1216
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:47,420
it's even been argued in the past that

1217
00:47:50,740 --> 00:47:49,130
they were electing pharaohs they were

1218
00:47:52,300 --> 00:47:50,750
choosing pharaohs and plucking them on

1219
00:47:53,830 --> 00:47:52,310
the throne if they didn't like them we

1220
00:47:55,900 --> 00:47:53,840
kick him out after two or three years I

1221
00:47:57,430 --> 00:47:55,910
mean and there are so many pharaohs in

1222
00:47:59,950 --> 00:47:57,440
this period the 30 dynasty is something

1223
00:48:01,870 --> 00:47:59,960
like 40 pharaohs or 50 pharaohs in this

1224
00:48:03,849 --> 00:48:01,880
period and and they none of them really

1225
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:03,859
have a long very long line about three

1226
00:48:09,849 --> 00:48:06,770
of them do and so the power seems to be

1227
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:09,859
with the the busiest and this is this

1228
00:48:12,849 --> 00:48:11,330
comes out of what happens at the end of

1229
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:12,859
the twelfth understand it it's also

1230
00:48:17,140 --> 00:48:14,930
related to in the new chronology to the

1231
00:48:18,730 --> 00:48:17,150
story of Joseph because Joseph affected

1232
00:48:21,609 --> 00:48:18,740
became the Vizier of the land of Egypt

1233
00:48:23,230 --> 00:48:21,619
and his sons Ephraim and Manasseh also

1234
00:48:25,090 --> 00:48:23,240
were very powerful after Joseph died

1235
00:48:27,010 --> 00:48:25,100
they were actually also controlling

1236
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:27,020
Egypt as a series of very very powerful

1237
00:48:28,220 --> 00:48:27,530
Vizier

1238
00:48:29,660 --> 00:48:28,230
so the

1239
00:48:32,780 --> 00:48:29,670
and seems to have been taken over by

1240
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:32,790
these immigrants who came into Egypt at

1241
00:48:36,349 --> 00:48:34,770
the end of the 12th dynasty and they are

1242
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:36,359
affected of the Israelites are joining

1243
00:48:41,180 --> 00:48:38,130
in Egypt during the pier before the

1244
00:48:43,849 --> 00:48:41,190
slavery when another Egyptian dynasty

1245
00:48:45,980 --> 00:48:43,859
comes rises up the sub dynasty from from

1246
00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:45,990
Thebes comes along a miniature dynasty

1247
00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:48,480
within the thirty ten st captures the

1248
00:48:53,660 --> 00:48:51,359
land entirely they don't know Joseph

1249
00:48:56,240 --> 00:48:53,670
Joseph now died and they enslaved the

1250
00:48:57,770 --> 00:48:56,250
the Israelites or the Hebrews in the

1251
00:48:59,990 --> 00:48:57,780
land and that's the slavery period

1252
00:49:02,630 --> 00:49:00,000
before eventually the exodus under Moses

1253
00:49:04,099 --> 00:49:02,640
so that's all happening in the late 12th

1254
00:49:07,580 --> 00:49:04,109
dynasty and all the way through the 13th

1255
00:49:09,050 --> 00:49:07,590
dynasty now after this period I know

1256
00:49:10,910 --> 00:49:09,060
that during the soldier and they were

1257
00:49:13,220 --> 00:49:10,920
referring to the forty years in the

1258
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:13,230
desert according to the Bible is that

1259
00:49:17,330 --> 00:49:15,330
correct that's the period after the

1260
00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:17,340
Exodus okay have appeared put in about

1261
00:49:20,420 --> 00:49:18,960
two hundred and fifteen years is the

1262
00:49:22,609 --> 00:49:20,430
sahjhan period which is from the time

1263
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:22,619
when Joseph arrives in Egypt as a slave

1264
00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:25,050
he rises to the highest rank in the land

1265
00:49:28,970 --> 00:49:27,510
under the Pharoah he brings his father

1266
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:28,980
Jacob in and the rest of his brothers

1267
00:49:33,140 --> 00:49:30,690
and that's the beginning of the sahjhan

1268
00:49:35,359 --> 00:49:33,150
is when Jacob arrives if you like during

1269
00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:35,369
the famine period and and they expand a

1270
00:49:39,230 --> 00:49:37,680
multiply for a period of that in a

1271
00:49:42,050 --> 00:49:39,240
hundred and fifty years or so and then

1272
00:49:43,580 --> 00:49:42,060
they're enslaved after all the patron of

1273
00:49:46,310 --> 00:49:43,590
these original patriarchs who died all

1274
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:46,320
the clan eponymous ancestors of the

1275
00:49:50,630 --> 00:49:48,210
twelve tribes have all died and you you

1276
00:49:53,450 --> 00:49:50,640
have the the descendants of those people

1277
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:53,460
they're enslaved Moses is born and he

1278
00:49:57,109 --> 00:49:55,530
flees out of Egypt for a period of time

1279
00:49:59,480 --> 00:49:57,119
he comes back again and then they all

1280
00:50:01,070 --> 00:49:59,490
vacate Egypt the land of Goshen and they

1281
00:50:03,770 --> 00:50:01,080
cross over through the desert for 40

1282
00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:03,780
years as you say that's a rough matter

1283
00:50:07,580 --> 00:50:05,760
time and this 40-year thing occurs all

1284
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:07,590
the term for the Bible they wanted the

1285
00:50:11,570 --> 00:50:09,930
desert sand and eventually they come and

1286
00:50:15,070 --> 00:50:11,580
conquer the promised land and settle in

1287
00:50:17,150 --> 00:50:15,080
Israel what becomes Israel today and

1288
00:50:19,220 --> 00:50:17,160
we're gonna be going to break I just

1289
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:19,230
wanna go to ask you one question which

1290
00:50:22,099 --> 00:50:20,130
you don't have to give the answer right

1291
00:50:25,580 --> 00:50:22,109
now but it'll be the hook for everyone

1292
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:25,590
to come back if they spent forty years

1293
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:26,160
in the desert

1294
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:27,810
that this was from the Facebook page and

1295
00:50:33,770 --> 00:50:31,170
it's a six-day walk what were they doing

1296
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:33,780
during those forty years and you want me

1297
00:50:38,270 --> 00:50:35,970
to answer that now or later to the

1298
00:50:39,260 --> 00:50:38,280
factory come back I think I have to it's

1299
00:50:41,060 --> 00:50:39,270
a long story

1300
00:50:44,060 --> 00:50:41,070
oh I can't wait

1301
00:50:48,170 --> 00:50:44,070
let's see here when twitch I'm gonna be

1302
00:50:48,849 --> 00:50:48,180
giving you guys for music we'll do that

1303
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:48,859
one

1304
00:50:54,650 --> 00:50:52,770
sure alright ladies and gentlemen we

1305
00:50:58,970 --> 00:50:54,660
will be back in about five to seven

1306
00:51:09,060 --> 00:50:58,980
minutes ten state mm-hmm hang tight and

1307
00:56:12,650 --> 00:53:29,230
[Music]

1308
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:12,660
and ladies and gentlemen we are back

1309
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:15,970
with none other than the world's most

1310
00:56:23,610 --> 00:56:18,850
famous historian and one of the most

1311
00:56:24,630 --> 00:56:23,620
controversial David Rohl so David but

1312
00:56:28,980 --> 00:56:24,640
yes I'm on break

1313
00:56:30,450 --> 00:56:28,990
I asked you about the 40 years when is a

1314
00:56:33,060 --> 00:56:30,460
six-day trip and you said it was a long

1315
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:33,070
story yeah well first of all it's not a

1316
00:56:38,910 --> 00:56:36,130
six-day trip I mean yes if I suppose if

1317
00:56:40,500 --> 00:56:38,920
you wanted to I get on a bike and do it

1318
00:56:42,090 --> 00:56:40,510
but if you were walking I doubt very

1319
00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:42,100
much if you could travel the distance

1320
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:45,250
you put on your Facebook map in that

1321
00:56:49,290 --> 00:56:47,410
time because people have to rest and and

1322
00:56:50,850 --> 00:56:49,300
you have don't forget also that the

1323
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:50,860
Israelites are coming out with their

1324
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:53,290
flocks and their animals and their old

1325
00:56:57,150 --> 00:56:55,290
people and their young people the babies

1326
00:56:58,680 --> 00:56:57,160
carts and everything else they're not

1327
00:57:02,340 --> 00:56:58,690
gonna be kept traveling at a huge speed

1328
00:57:04,050 --> 00:57:02,350
and secondly the terrain across Sinai is

1329
00:57:06,060 --> 00:57:04,060
extremely difficult especially the route

1330
00:57:08,340 --> 00:57:06,070
you put on Facebook directly across what

1331
00:57:10,290 --> 00:57:08,350
we call the L ticket plateau which is

1332
00:57:11,490 --> 00:57:10,300
very fissured and very broken up and

1333
00:57:13,410 --> 00:57:11,500
you're going directly against the

1334
00:57:16,740 --> 00:57:13,420
fissure so you crossing all these dips

1335
00:57:18,270 --> 00:57:16,750
and troughs and craggy bits etc there's

1336
00:57:20,340 --> 00:57:18,280
virtually no water in that area either

1337
00:57:22,530 --> 00:57:20,350
so the way that the Israelites would

1338
00:57:24,870 --> 00:57:22,540
have crossed Sinai was not to go

1339
00:57:26,940 --> 00:57:24,880
directly across from the Northwest to

1340
00:57:29,220 --> 00:57:26,950
the southeast but actually to go down to

1341
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:29,230
the South because on that route you have

1342
00:57:35,010 --> 00:57:32,170
water pretty much at every every day's

1343
00:57:37,170 --> 00:57:35,020
walk let's say an average of something

1344
00:57:40,010 --> 00:57:37,180
like in when they're in a hurry they

1345
00:57:42,210 --> 00:57:40,020
could do maybe 22 miles a day maximum

1346
00:57:43,980 --> 00:57:42,220
when they were taking their time and

1347
00:57:45,660 --> 00:57:43,990
there were no urgency involved and they

1348
00:57:47,790 --> 00:57:45,670
would probably be much slower than that

1349
00:57:49,620 --> 00:57:47,800
so that the crucial thing is follow the

1350
00:57:52,250 --> 00:57:49,630
water you have to follow the water and

1351
00:57:54,810 --> 00:57:52,260
that's why people even through the

1352
00:57:57,750 --> 00:57:54,820
Middle Ages were using the southern

1353
00:57:59,190 --> 00:57:57,760
route down into the granite Massif of in

1354
00:58:01,620 --> 00:57:59,200
Iran singh catherine's monastery because

1355
00:58:02,940 --> 00:58:01,630
down that way there is water supply all

1356
00:58:05,550 --> 00:58:02,950
the way down and all the way up the

1357
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:05,560
other side so although it's longer it's

1358
00:58:10,290 --> 00:58:07,690
much safer and much more reliable to go

1359
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:10,300
that way and in fact you you have

1360
00:58:15,150 --> 00:58:12,850
abundant water supply in the area of

1361
00:58:17,490 --> 00:58:15,160
what we call Jebel Musa the granite

1362
00:58:19,650 --> 00:58:17,500
Massif down west Catherine's is located

1363
00:58:21,779 --> 00:58:19,660
in the south of the Sinai Peninsula you

1364
00:58:23,490 --> 00:58:21,789
have about 20 springs there and and huge

1365
00:58:25,380 --> 00:58:23,500
amounts of water all the year round so

1366
00:58:27,569 --> 00:58:25,390
there's no problem about going down

1367
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:27,579
there and spending a little bit of time

1368
00:58:31,410 --> 00:58:29,170
there which is what Moses did you know

1369
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:31,420
they travel down to the area of Mount

1370
00:58:34,770 --> 00:58:33,250
Sinai in the southern peninsula and took

1371
00:58:36,569 --> 00:58:34,780
him about three months to do that and

1372
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:36,579
then they stayed there for the best part

1373
00:58:41,549 --> 00:58:38,890
of a year before they move northwards

1374
00:58:44,849 --> 00:58:41,559
again along the west side of the Aqaba

1375
00:58:47,430 --> 00:58:44,859
Gulf and ended up in the Negev desert

1376
00:58:49,529 --> 00:58:47,440
which is to the south of Israel today

1377
00:58:51,299 --> 00:58:49,539
it's sort of the the desert between the

1378
00:58:53,940 --> 00:58:51,309
hill country of Israel and the Sinai

1379
00:58:55,349 --> 00:58:53,950
Peninsula and and that's of course where

1380
00:58:57,599 --> 00:58:55,359
they spent a considerable amount of time

1381
00:59:00,359 --> 00:58:57,609
wandering around that area but you said

1382
00:59:02,220 --> 00:59:00,369
40 years well the thing is it wasn't 40

1383
00:59:04,650 --> 00:59:02,230
years wandering although that's what the

1384
00:59:07,020 --> 00:59:04,660
Bible says they spent a long time at one

1385
00:59:09,870 --> 00:59:07,030
particular site which the Bible calls

1386
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:09,880
Kadesh Barnea or Kadesh simply and

1387
00:59:13,589 --> 00:59:11,530
that's the place where they probably

1388
00:59:16,740 --> 00:59:13,599
stay for much of that period maybe as

1389
00:59:20,010 --> 00:59:16,750
much as 37 38 years they spent in that

1390
00:59:22,140 --> 00:59:20,020
particular location why because they

1391
00:59:24,510 --> 00:59:22,150
were going to become an invading army of

1392
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:24,520
a very very powerful area the the

1393
00:59:27,510 --> 00:59:25,930
Promised Land if you remember when the

1394
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:27,520
spies are sent up there to go and

1395
00:59:31,319 --> 00:59:29,890
investigate and spy out the land they

1396
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:31,329
come back with reports of these huge

1397
00:59:35,910 --> 00:59:33,490
cities with massive walls and great

1398
00:59:38,549 --> 00:59:35,920
defenses and these very strong rulers

1399
00:59:40,529 --> 00:59:38,559
called the Aniki the the rulers were big

1400
00:59:42,569 --> 00:59:40,539
powerful men and they were scared and

1401
00:59:43,799 --> 00:59:42,579
they knew they couldn't you know they

1402
00:59:45,809 --> 00:59:43,809
were a bunch of slaves they knew they

1403
00:59:47,430 --> 00:59:45,819
couldn't simply go and invade this place

1404
00:59:49,589 --> 00:59:47,440
they didn't have the training the

1405
00:59:51,059 --> 00:59:49,599
weaponry they didn't have the the size

1406
00:59:54,359 --> 00:59:51,069
of the army needed to take over this

1407
00:59:56,220 --> 00:59:54,369
area so they spent many years in this

1408
00:59:58,769 --> 00:59:56,230
place called Kadesh basically training

1409
01:00:00,359 --> 00:59:58,779
up to become an army a military force so

1410
01:00:02,190 --> 01:00:00,369
they could then invade and it was the

1411
01:00:04,470 --> 01:00:02,200
next generation of people who actually

1412
01:00:06,779 --> 01:00:04,480
the invading onto Joshua Moses and and

1413
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:06,789
Aaron his brother and Miriam his sister

1414
01:00:09,510 --> 01:00:08,170
were all dead by then and all the people

1415
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:09,520
who came out of Egypt were dead by then

1416
01:00:14,190 --> 01:00:12,250
so you know it was a new generation that

1417
01:00:16,319 --> 01:00:14,200
were militaristic which when went across

1418
01:00:20,430 --> 01:00:16,329
the Jordan to attack Jericho and invade

1419
01:00:22,859 --> 01:00:20,440
the promised land and what this probably

1420
01:00:26,190 --> 01:00:22,869
leads into your the the new series that

1421
01:00:28,710 --> 01:00:26,200
you had spent of last year working on

1422
01:00:30,660 --> 01:00:28,720
yeah what evidence has been found of

1423
01:00:32,610 --> 01:00:30,670
this build-up in this militarization

1424
01:00:34,470 --> 01:00:32,620
well

1425
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:34,480
that's a difficult question to answer

1426
01:00:39,210 --> 01:00:37,330
because nomadic peoples tend not to

1427
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:39,220
leave evidence where they've been

1428
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:41,290
I mean you if you go into any part of

1429
01:00:44,580 --> 01:00:42,730
Saudi Arabia today or in the Sinai

1430
01:00:46,710 --> 01:00:44,590
Peninsula you look for the Bedouin you

1431
01:00:49,170 --> 01:00:46,720
can't find their overnight camps because

1432
01:00:50,550 --> 01:00:49,180
they they don't have pottery you in

1433
01:00:52,410 --> 01:00:50,560
order to have pottery you have to have

1434
01:00:54,330 --> 01:00:52,420
cities with kilns and and things like

1435
01:00:56,220 --> 01:00:54,340
that the manufacture the pottery these

1436
01:00:58,020 --> 01:00:56,230
were Wanderers so they didn't carry

1437
01:00:59,880 --> 01:00:58,030
their water and their liquids around in

1438
01:01:01,050 --> 01:00:59,890
pottery was too heavy it was too friable

1439
01:01:03,210 --> 01:01:01,060
it breaks too easy

1440
01:01:05,310 --> 01:01:03,220
they had leather skin Scout skins and

1441
01:01:06,810 --> 01:01:05,320
sheep skins to kind of water out so

1442
01:01:08,850 --> 01:01:06,820
you're not going to find the normal

1443
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:08,860
archaeological evidence for a people in

1444
01:01:11,850 --> 01:01:10,570
the desert because they didn't build

1445
01:01:14,490 --> 01:01:11,860
houses there they didn't have

1446
01:01:16,530 --> 01:01:14,500
stratigraphy they didn't have pottery so

1447
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:16,540
if you find a bunch of bones in the

1448
01:01:20,550 --> 01:01:17,890
desert you're not gonna know you know

1449
01:01:23,730 --> 01:01:20,560
who the people were that the remains are

1450
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:23,740
off so it's very difficult to find the

1451
01:01:28,710 --> 01:01:26,050
nomadic peoples in archaeology it's very

1452
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:28,720
hard to do that in the case of of car -

1453
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:30,610
there's a different issue there and it's

1454
01:01:34,140 --> 01:01:32,290
quite interesting it's slightly

1455
01:01:35,610 --> 01:01:34,150
complicated and I hope you've got the

1456
01:01:36,660 --> 01:01:35,620
sort of like you have to think hard

1457
01:01:38,130 --> 01:01:36,670
about this were not the visuals because

1458
01:01:40,190 --> 01:01:38,140
it's quite difficult to get it together

1459
01:01:43,770 --> 01:01:40,200
but let me try to explain it to you

1460
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:43,780
there's a Islamic tradition also as well

1461
01:01:46,710 --> 01:01:45,250
as a biblical one in this part of the

1462
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:46,720
world where we have monuments dedicated

1463
01:01:52,470 --> 01:01:49,690
to various patriarchs or here're from

1464
01:01:54,420 --> 01:01:52,480
the Bible one particular one which is

1465
01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:54,430
very important it's the brother of Moses

1466
01:01:58,500 --> 01:01:56,890
called Aaron who was the high priest the

1467
01:02:01,310 --> 01:01:58,510
first high priest of Israel

1468
01:02:04,890 --> 01:02:01,320
now his tomb is located on a mountain

1469
01:02:07,830 --> 01:02:04,900
called Jebel Haroun in Jordan because he

1470
01:02:10,050 --> 01:02:07,840
died in Jordan and Andy was actually

1471
01:02:12,630 --> 01:02:10,060
buried on top of this mountain and that

1472
01:02:14,250 --> 01:02:12,640
tomb still exists today in fact we all

1473
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:14,260
have things we filmed when we were

1474
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:15,730
filming in Jordan is that we climbed

1475
01:02:18,990 --> 01:02:17,170
that mountain which is extremely

1476
01:02:21,060 --> 01:02:19,000
difficult to get to and to climb up to

1477
01:02:23,490 --> 01:02:21,070
and we actually went into the tomb of

1478
01:02:26,340 --> 01:02:23,500
the Prophet Aaron according to or how

1479
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:26,350
ruinous the Arabs call him and and we

1480
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:27,970
actually found the tomb and we went

1481
01:02:32,730 --> 01:02:30,850
inside it and filmed it now if that

1482
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:32,740
story is correct and if this really is

1483
01:02:36,990 --> 01:02:34,770
his tomb when it would appear to be the

1484
01:02:38,940 --> 01:02:37,000
geographical evidence the toponyms all

1485
01:02:40,710 --> 01:02:38,950
seem to work very well if this is

1486
01:02:43,020 --> 01:02:40,720
actually the tomb that he was buried in

1487
01:02:45,420 --> 01:02:43,030
the location the the Bible calls it

1488
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:45,430
Mount hor and the article at Jebel

1489
01:02:48,090 --> 01:02:46,090
Haroun on

1490
01:02:50,730 --> 01:02:48,100
mountain of Haroon and Haruna Sh Aaron

1491
01:02:52,950 --> 01:02:50,740
then it all seems to fit very well but

1492
01:02:55,020 --> 01:02:52,960
what's fascinating about it is it looks

1493
01:02:57,390 --> 01:02:55,030
down on this mountain on the city of

1494
01:02:59,580 --> 01:02:57,400
Petra in Jordan which is very famous

1495
01:03:01,590 --> 01:02:59,590
everybody knows Petra but Petra is a

1496
01:03:04,410 --> 01:03:01,600
Nabataean city from a much later period

1497
01:03:06,090 --> 01:03:04,420
it's er it's basically from about the

1498
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:06,100
3rd century BC through to the 1st

1499
01:03:10,650 --> 01:03:08,170
century AD around my era much much later

1500
01:03:12,180 --> 01:03:10,660
than Moses and the Israelites but it

1501
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:12,190
seems that the Israelites were in this

1502
01:03:17,220 --> 01:03:14,890
same location way way before the

1503
01:03:19,500 --> 01:03:17,230
Nabateans and so they use this as a sort

1504
01:03:21,180 --> 01:03:19,510
of base and it seems from the toponyms

1505
01:03:23,790 --> 01:03:21,190
that this is the place that the Bible

1506
01:03:26,430 --> 01:03:23,800
calls Kaddish the word in Kurdish means

1507
01:03:29,460 --> 01:03:26,440
holy so it's a holy place that the Moses

1508
01:03:31,260 --> 01:03:29,470
and the Israelites stayed they built up

1509
01:03:32,670 --> 01:03:31,270
their army they made weapons etc in

1510
01:03:35,910 --> 01:03:32,680
preparation for going to the promised

1511
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:35,920
land then Aaron died there he was buried

1512
01:03:39,690 --> 01:03:37,930
on top of this mountain Moses then led

1513
01:03:42,060 --> 01:03:39,700
the people northwards he then died on

1514
01:03:43,590 --> 01:03:42,070
Mount Nebo and Joshua took over across

1515
01:03:45,690 --> 01:03:43,600
the Jordan River and conquered Jericho

1516
01:03:47,670 --> 01:03:45,700
that's the story in the Bible and it

1517
01:03:50,190 --> 01:03:47,680
seems to all relate to this place called

1518
01:03:52,140 --> 01:03:50,200
Kadesh which we now know to be located

1519
01:03:55,230 --> 01:03:52,150
at Petra and in fact all the great

1520
01:03:58,020 --> 01:03:55,240
classical writers and Church Fathers all

1521
01:04:00,240 --> 01:03:58,030
identified Petra as Kardash and the

1522
01:04:01,950 --> 01:04:00,250
Bible so we're pretty strong on this we

1523
01:04:04,170 --> 01:04:01,960
think this is definitely evidence that

1524
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:04,180
we were looking for for the location for

1525
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:05,530
the majority of the time that the

1526
01:04:10,020 --> 01:04:07,210
Israelites spent in the wandering period

1527
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:10,030
at this location now you said they had

1528
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:12,730
after the wandering period they did they

1529
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:16,570
go directly to Jericho - to take that

1530
01:04:19,890 --> 01:04:18,730
city over or destroy the city well the

1531
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:19,900
first thing they did was conquer the

1532
01:04:23,010 --> 01:04:21,370
Jordanian side of the river

1533
01:04:24,780 --> 01:04:23,020
their conquered many cities in that area

1534
01:04:26,460 --> 01:04:24,790
so that was like a year and a half worth

1535
01:04:29,070 --> 01:04:26,470
of conquest

1536
01:04:31,590 --> 01:04:29,080
then they crossed the Jordan then they

1537
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:31,600
attack Jericho destroyed Jericho burnt

1538
01:04:35,460 --> 01:04:34,090
it to the ground the walls collapsed and

1539
01:04:36,930 --> 01:04:35,470
we found the evidence for that in the

1540
01:04:39,450 --> 01:04:36,940
archaeology there the walls did collapse

1541
01:04:41,070 --> 01:04:39,460
outwards the city was then burnt we

1542
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:41,080
found a ship about a metre and a half

1543
01:04:45,090 --> 01:04:43,450
thick on the thing of the burning and

1544
01:04:46,530 --> 01:04:45,100
then the city was abandoned for 600

1545
01:04:49,140 --> 01:04:46,540
years which is exactly what the story of

1546
01:04:50,940 --> 01:04:49,150
the Bible says about Joshua conquering

1547
01:04:53,490 --> 01:04:50,950
Jericho they then went up to the city of

1548
01:04:55,980 --> 01:04:53,500
I in the hill country that cities now

1549
01:04:59,250 --> 01:04:55,990
been located at a particular place

1550
01:04:59,970 --> 01:04:59,260
called Kermit McAteer excavated by the

1551
01:05:01,470 --> 01:04:59,980
ABR

1552
01:05:03,780 --> 01:05:01,480
folk the association of biblical

1553
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:03,790
research they're excavating they

1554
01:05:07,349 --> 01:05:05,650
excavated that it almost certainly is

1555
01:05:10,530 --> 01:05:07,359
the City of Iowa which has been lost for

1556
01:05:11,790 --> 01:05:10,540
centuries and then they moved on up into

1557
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:11,800
the hill country they conquered all the

1558
01:05:15,599 --> 01:05:12,970
main cities in in the hill country

1559
01:05:18,540 --> 01:05:15,609
region and finally ended up at a place

1560
01:05:21,030 --> 01:05:18,550
called shake em or shake em where Joshua

1561
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:21,040
erected a standing stone and he got the

1562
01:05:24,570 --> 01:05:22,690
tribes to swear their loyalty to their

1563
01:05:26,190 --> 01:05:24,580
God Yahweh and then they had then

1564
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:26,200
disbursed to the different allotments

1565
01:05:29,220 --> 01:05:27,730
that were given to them for in the

1566
01:05:31,020 --> 01:05:29,230
country for their territories their

1567
01:05:33,060 --> 01:05:31,030
tribal territories and that basically is

1568
01:05:35,790 --> 01:05:33,070
the end of the story of the conquest now

1569
01:05:38,310 --> 01:05:35,800
show him if I'm not mistaken you you

1570
01:05:40,710 --> 01:05:38,320
would refer to the standing stone yeah

1571
01:05:42,900 --> 01:05:40,720
that standing stone is still there to

1572
01:05:44,970 --> 01:05:42,910
this day is it not it is but it's not

1573
01:05:48,030 --> 01:05:44,980
recognized as Joshua standing stone it's

1574
01:05:49,830 --> 01:05:48,040
a huge white monolith but it stands in

1575
01:05:52,590 --> 01:05:49,840
front of the temple of Baal a balberith

1576
01:05:54,390 --> 01:05:52,600
and it almost certainly is the original

1577
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:54,400
stone the Joshua erected there the

1578
01:05:58,470 --> 01:05:56,050
problem is of course without a revised

1579
01:06:00,030 --> 01:05:58,480
chronology it's far too early to be

1580
01:06:02,340 --> 01:06:00,040
Joshua standing stone he's three hundred

1581
01:06:05,010 --> 01:06:02,350
years before Joshua's time according to

1582
01:06:08,070 --> 01:06:05,020
the conventional dating scheme so most

1583
01:06:09,510 --> 01:06:08,080
Israeli archaeologists and and biblical

1584
01:06:11,430 --> 01:06:09,520
archaeologist don't recognize it it's

1585
01:06:12,900 --> 01:06:11,440
the standing stone of Joseph and that's

1586
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:12,910
the case for all this material we're

1587
01:06:17,370 --> 01:06:14,530
talking about now they simply don't

1588
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:17,380
recognize the big population of Semites

1589
01:06:20,220 --> 01:06:18,970
in Egypt in the land of Goshen as the

1590
01:06:22,290 --> 01:06:20,230
Israelites they don't recognize the

1591
01:06:24,330 --> 01:06:22,300
conquest of Jericho and the Promised

1592
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:24,340
Land is in the middle Bronze Age as the

1593
01:06:27,750 --> 01:06:26,170
work of the Israelites they don't

1594
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:27,760
recognize the Joshua standing stillness

1595
01:06:32,190 --> 01:06:30,490
as the Covenant stone because it's all

1596
01:06:33,540 --> 01:06:32,200
too early to be at the time of the

1597
01:06:36,390 --> 01:06:33,550
Israelites that's the problem we've got

1598
01:06:38,609 --> 01:06:36,400
now you also do have a lot of vomitus

1599
01:06:40,230 --> 01:06:38,619
for anybody who proposes a new theory

1600
01:06:41,730 --> 01:06:40,240
especially dealing with history and

1601
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:41,740
especially dealing with an area of the

1602
01:06:47,730 --> 01:06:45,010
world as politically complex and so in

1603
01:06:52,099 --> 01:06:47,740
and culturally complex as the Middle

1604
01:06:54,990 --> 01:06:52,109
East Levant and northeastern Africa

1605
01:06:57,390 --> 01:06:55,000
there are some individuals who may push

1606
01:06:59,190 --> 01:06:57,400
back and say well you know this this

1607
01:07:01,020 --> 01:06:59,200
can't be right because you had to create

1608
01:07:02,780 --> 01:07:01,030
your entire chronology or an entirely

1609
01:07:05,070 --> 01:07:02,790
new chronology to make the theory fit

1610
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:05,080
how would you be able to respond to

1611
01:07:10,650 --> 01:07:08,050
these these types of criticisms well

1612
01:07:13,799 --> 01:07:10,660
it's the opposite of that I mean you

1613
01:07:17,069 --> 01:07:13,809
know when I was doing my degree and pH

1614
01:07:19,679 --> 01:07:17,079
at University College London my work was

1615
01:07:20,609 --> 01:07:19,689
focused on the Egyptian chronology and I

1616
01:07:22,439 --> 01:07:20,619
didn't have anything to do with the

1617
01:07:25,589 --> 01:07:22,449
Bible stuff at all I mean I'm you know

1618
01:07:27,719 --> 01:07:25,599
I'm agnostic I'm not a believer I'm

1619
01:07:30,209 --> 01:07:27,729
somebody who's you know inquiring into

1620
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:30,219
all this stuff and as an historian as an

1621
01:07:34,799 --> 01:07:32,890
archaeologist and so I was looking at

1622
01:07:36,479 --> 01:07:34,809
Egyptian chronology specifically and I

1623
01:07:38,249 --> 01:07:36,489
was looking at the anomalies that we

1624
01:07:39,420 --> 01:07:38,259
find in one of our intermediate people

1625
01:07:42,089 --> 01:07:39,430
called the third Intermediate Period

1626
01:07:44,459 --> 01:07:42,099
that was my specialism and I was seeing

1627
01:07:46,799 --> 01:07:44,469
issues which questioned whether or not

1628
01:07:49,559 --> 01:07:46,809
we'd as historians had constructed that

1629
01:07:50,819 --> 01:07:49,569
chronology correctly and I got the

1630
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:50,829
impression from the work I was doing

1631
01:07:55,949 --> 01:07:52,930
that he could be shortened by you know a

1632
01:07:58,229 --> 01:07:55,959
couple of centuries and and as a result

1633
01:08:00,209 --> 01:07:58,239
of that when I then looked outside Egypt

1634
01:08:02,039 --> 01:08:00,219
through the window to Israel through the

1635
01:08:05,449 --> 01:08:02,049
window to Greece to the window to

1636
01:08:08,069 --> 01:08:05,459
Anatolia the hittite lands etc etc I

1637
01:08:09,329 --> 01:08:08,079
started to see that things started to

1638
01:08:11,849 --> 01:08:09,339
fit together much better with this

1639
01:08:14,429 --> 01:08:11,859
shortened Egyptian chronology so whereas

1640
01:08:16,769 --> 01:08:14,439
in the conventional dating scheme there

1641
01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:16,779
was no synchronism x' in the archaeology

1642
01:08:21,209 --> 01:08:19,449
of Israel and Palestine with Egypt

1643
01:08:22,410 --> 01:08:21,219
suddenly with this shortening of

1644
01:08:24,390 --> 01:08:22,420
Egyptian chronology that bringing down

1645
01:08:24,749 --> 01:08:24,400
of the dates before the 30 to mediate

1646
01:08:26,700 --> 01:08:24,759
bird

1647
01:08:28,740 --> 01:08:26,710
it started to lock together we started

1648
01:08:31,260 --> 01:08:28,750
to find evidence that match the biblical

1649
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:31,270
dating and the stratigraphy with the

1650
01:08:35,519 --> 01:08:33,730
Egyptian evidence and so it wasn't a

1651
01:08:37,470 --> 01:08:35,529
case of trying to prove the Bible and

1652
01:08:38,819 --> 01:08:37,480
then looking at Egyptian ecology in

1653
01:08:40,919 --> 01:08:38,829
Toronto just it was the opposite way

1654
01:08:42,510 --> 01:08:40,929
around it was looking at Egyptian

1655
01:08:44,729 --> 01:08:42,520
chronology Fanning anomalies and

1656
01:08:46,169 --> 01:08:44,739
problems with it correcting that the

1657
01:08:47,819 --> 01:08:46,179
dating system in Egypt then looking

1658
01:08:49,470 --> 01:08:47,829
outside to the neighbors and saying well

1659
01:08:52,109 --> 01:08:49,480
how does this now fit with the biblical

1660
01:08:54,359 --> 01:08:52,119
story and it and as I've been criticized

1661
01:08:55,979 --> 01:08:54,369
so many times by people saying it's too

1662
01:08:57,510 --> 01:08:55,989
good to be true David you can't possibly

1663
01:08:59,189 --> 01:08:57,520
have got it right because it's too good

1664
01:09:01,049 --> 01:08:59,199
to be true and I say well why shouldn't

1665
01:09:03,539 --> 01:09:01,059
it be good to be true if it's right

1666
01:09:05,459 --> 01:09:03,549
you know if the dating does seem to work

1667
01:09:07,499 --> 01:09:05,469
and the synchronism do work then it's

1668
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:07,509
going to be good isn't it well it would

1669
01:09:10,890 --> 01:09:09,130
be and that's the whole idea there

1670
01:09:12,930 --> 01:09:10,900
you're able to at least back up the

1671
01:09:16,229 --> 01:09:12,940
concept and back up the idea which is

1672
01:09:18,959 --> 01:09:16,239
the whole basis of turning any theory

1673
01:09:22,049 --> 01:09:18,969
into you know an actual what would be

1674
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:22,059
termed in math a proof yeah to be able

1675
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:24,730
to have to have that that that amount of

1676
01:09:30,539 --> 01:09:27,370
you know not just one or two or three

1677
01:09:32,999 --> 01:09:30,549
things that well they say one thing is a

1678
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:33,009
coincidence or is it do things the

1679
01:09:35,999 --> 01:09:34,210
coincidence three things is a pattern

1680
01:09:37,559 --> 01:09:36,009
you know if there's really if there's a

1681
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:37,569
pattern it there gets to a certain point

1682
01:09:41,999 --> 01:09:39,730
where it becomes harder and harder to be

1683
01:09:44,490 --> 01:09:42,009
able to accept accept by the individuals

1684
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:44,500
whose lifework may have been countered

1685
01:09:48,329 --> 01:09:46,810
to what you're proposing and obviously

1686
01:09:53,070 --> 01:09:48,339
there there may be individuals who want

1687
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:53,080
to protect that life work I understand

1688
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:54,730
that to be honest I mean you know if you

1689
01:09:59,220 --> 01:09:57,010
have spent your entire life explaining

1690
01:10:01,170 --> 01:09:59,230
away the anomalies explaining why the

1691
01:10:02,729 --> 01:10:01,180
evidence is not there and you've written

1692
01:10:04,110 --> 01:10:02,739
copious books about the subject you've

1693
01:10:05,070 --> 01:10:04,120
taught it at university for donkey's

1694
01:10:07,110 --> 01:10:05,080
years well of course you're going to

1695
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:07,120
resist this sort of thing because it is

1696
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:09,489
a very revolutionary idea I'm not

1697
01:10:13,260 --> 01:10:11,290
surprised that I get resistance from it

1698
01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:13,270
it's a little bit like continental drift

1699
01:10:17,970 --> 01:10:15,489
theory I mean that was you know that was

1700
01:10:19,380 --> 01:10:17,980
not accepted by academia for about

1701
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:19,390
twenty five thirty years after it was

1702
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:21,489
first proposed but now everybody accepts

1703
01:10:25,740 --> 01:10:23,130
the consonance you know drifted apart

1704
01:10:28,470 --> 01:10:25,750
and it's part of modern history and

1705
01:10:30,690 --> 01:10:28,480
science so you know I don't expect this

1706
01:10:32,370 --> 01:10:30,700
idea of mine this theory to be accepted

1707
01:10:34,500 --> 01:10:32,380
overnight that would be very naive me to

1708
01:10:35,820 --> 01:10:34,510
think that but as I build up the

1709
01:10:37,860 --> 01:10:35,830
evidence as we find more and more

1710
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:37,870
evidence we're committing more and more

1711
01:10:42,690 --> 01:10:40,090
people and even they're the ones most

1712
01:10:44,490 --> 01:10:42,700
resistant to the to the ideas of the new

1713
01:10:45,870 --> 01:10:44,500
ecology originally are now sort of

1714
01:10:48,090 --> 01:10:45,880
coming around to accepting but

1715
01:10:49,410 --> 01:10:48,100
grudgingly certain aspects of it and

1716
01:10:51,660 --> 01:10:49,420
then they find other reasons well they

1717
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:51,670
can't accept it but they do accept the

1718
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:53,530
evidence that's being presented as being

1719
01:10:57,570 --> 01:10:55,330
convincing and then they find an

1720
01:10:58,920 --> 01:10:57,580
alternative view by looking at something

1721
01:11:00,540 --> 01:10:58,930
like radiocarbon dating or something

1722
01:11:02,370 --> 01:11:00,550
where they also well you can't do this

1723
01:11:04,050 --> 01:11:02,380
because the radiocarbon dates confirm

1724
01:11:06,330 --> 01:11:04,060
the conventional data system that's a

1725
01:11:08,580 --> 01:11:06,340
whole different you know interview to

1726
01:11:10,170 --> 01:11:08,590
deal with that but we're finding new

1727
01:11:13,229 --> 01:11:10,180
evidence all the time and one athing

1728
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:13,239
thing that happened in the early 2000s I

1729
01:11:19,979 --> 01:11:15,370
went out and led two expeditions into

1730
01:11:21,690 --> 01:11:19,989
the Sinai Peninsula in 2001 or 2004 and

1731
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:21,700
we were actually looking for evidence of

1732
01:11:25,770 --> 01:11:23,530
the route that the Israelites would have

1733
01:11:28,490 --> 01:11:25,780
taken through there led by Moses to the

1734
01:11:31,140 --> 01:11:28,500
Sinai desert in the wandering period and

1735
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:31,150
we came across on our knew about it from

1736
01:11:35,790 --> 01:11:33,850
from my research before that a new

1737
01:11:36,580 --> 01:11:35,800
script that was found carved into the

1738
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:36,590
rocks

1739
01:11:41,110 --> 01:11:38,570
the parts of Sinai it's called

1740
01:11:44,350 --> 01:11:41,120
proto-sinaitic it's named after the

1741
01:11:45,790 --> 01:11:44,360
Sinai and it's actually symbols that

1742
01:11:47,500 --> 01:11:45,800
look will remarkable are Egyptian

1743
01:11:50,170 --> 01:11:47,510
hieroglyphs but when you try to read

1744
01:11:51,820 --> 01:11:50,180
them they don't read as Egyptian at all

1745
01:11:54,610 --> 01:11:51,830
they don't make any sense at Egyptian

1746
01:11:58,660 --> 01:11:54,620
hieroglyphs so somebody some clever Saud

1747
01:12:00,190 --> 01:11:58,670
had come along and invented signs that

1748
01:12:02,310 --> 01:12:00,200
were clearly based on the Egyptian

1749
01:12:05,710 --> 01:12:02,320
hieroglyphs and created a whole-new

1750
01:12:07,620 --> 01:12:05,720
script which turned out to be alphabetic

1751
01:12:12,250 --> 01:12:07,630
it's the first alphabet in the world

1752
01:12:14,950 --> 01:12:12,260
invented by a Semite who translated

1753
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:14,960
effectively these symbols into the first

1754
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:17,570
letters of Hebrew words so for instance

1755
01:12:22,180 --> 01:12:19,970
the the drawing for a house the sign for

1756
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:22,190
a house in Hebrew the word is Beit or

1757
01:12:29,890 --> 01:12:25,610
bet so that becomes the letter B the the

1758
01:12:32,500 --> 01:12:29,900
ox head is an Aleph if that's the word

1759
01:12:34,810 --> 01:12:32,510
Aleph for ox in Hebrew that becomes our

1760
01:12:36,460 --> 01:12:34,820
letter A today and you could say the

1761
01:12:40,180 --> 01:12:36,470
same thing from my ear which becomes our

1762
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:40,190
letter M so all these signs are of our

1763
01:12:43,990 --> 01:12:41,690
alphabet derived from this first

1764
01:12:46,270 --> 01:12:44,000
alphabet in Sinai and some clever

1765
01:12:48,250 --> 01:12:46,280
Semitic person created this modern

1766
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:48,260
alphabets tell you this first alphabet

1767
01:12:51,580 --> 01:12:50,570
which we you still use today almost I

1768
01:12:54,010 --> 01:12:51,590
mean the letters are almost identical

1769
01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:54,020
you could see our modern letters in this

1770
01:12:58,990 --> 01:12:56,810
early script and that became the

1771
01:13:01,780 --> 01:12:59,000
language other the script of the Hebrews

1772
01:13:04,630 --> 01:13:01,790
of the Bible later on so it's very clear

1773
01:13:06,940 --> 01:13:04,640
that this is actually probably with the

1774
01:13:09,340 --> 01:13:06,950
dating revision is the earliest

1775
01:13:12,190 --> 01:13:09,350
Hebrew writing in the world it's found

1776
01:13:15,070 --> 01:13:12,200
in Sinai and when you translate it into

1777
01:13:17,440 --> 01:13:15,080
Hebrew biblical hebrew it actually

1778
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:17,450
references incidence in the story of

1779
01:13:23,500 --> 01:13:21,290
Exodus so it's real evidence of these

1780
01:13:25,420 --> 01:13:23,510
stories and the events taking place in

1781
01:13:26,950 --> 01:13:25,430
the Sinai Peninsula at this middle

1782
01:13:30,010 --> 01:13:26,960
Bronze Age period that I'm talking about

1783
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:30,020
I know that there was also mention in

1784
01:13:34,480 --> 01:13:32,210
one of your lectures and I think it'd be

1785
01:13:35,710 --> 01:13:34,490
very important for but for at least

1786
01:13:37,750 --> 01:13:35,720
everyone to have some context with

1787
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:37,760
regards to this alphabet

1788
01:13:46,390 --> 01:13:42,730
that's the naming of the the center

1789
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:46,400
after the state of the the Kingdom of

1790
01:13:52,300 --> 01:13:50,210
Israel was established by David

1791
01:13:54,690 --> 01:13:52,310
there was another point in time I

1792
01:13:57,880 --> 01:13:54,700
believe it was the Babylonians who had

1793
01:13:58,900 --> 01:13:57,890
essentially invaded or it was I think

1794
01:14:00,100 --> 01:13:58,910
it's originally attributed to the

1795
01:14:03,610 --> 01:14:00,110
Babylonians but it actually may have

1796
01:14:06,010 --> 01:14:03,620
been the Egyptians at one point had

1797
01:14:09,370 --> 01:14:06,020
actually attacked Israel after the fact

1798
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:09,380
I don't quite understand the question

1799
01:14:12,190 --> 01:14:10,850
all right so explain to me again I'm not

1800
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:12,200
sure I understand what you're getting at

1801
01:14:16,390 --> 01:14:13,690
well there there was a mistranslation

1802
01:14:18,910 --> 01:14:16,400
which was done one of the texts either

1803
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:18,920
by somebody who wrote it down wrong and

1804
01:14:24,610 --> 01:14:21,050
it was then attributed to Rameses as the

1805
01:14:26,530 --> 01:14:24,620
perez I know what you're talking about

1806
01:14:29,740 --> 01:14:26,540
now you're talking about Shishak yes

1807
01:14:31,750 --> 01:14:29,750
Pharaoh Shishak in the Bible the very

1808
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:31,760
first Pharaoh to be named to be prior to

1809
01:14:35,229 --> 01:14:33,050
this all the Pharaoh just called Pharaoh

1810
01:14:38,140 --> 01:14:35,239
the very first one to be named is called

1811
01:14:39,729 --> 01:14:38,150
Jacques in the Bible and shampo Leon who

1812
01:14:42,220 --> 01:14:39,739
deciphered the hieroglyphs went out to

1813
01:14:43,660 --> 01:14:42,230
Egypt to to try and find evidence of the

1814
01:14:45,130 --> 01:14:43,670
biblical stories in the Egyptian

1815
01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:45,140
hieroglyphs and he found in description

1816
01:14:49,990 --> 01:14:47,570
at Karnak which mentioned a king called

1817
01:14:53,140 --> 01:14:50,000
Shawshank it was their founder of the

1818
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:53,150
22nd dynasty and he equated shock and

1819
01:14:56,470 --> 01:14:54,650
Shawshank so he made the biblical

1820
01:14:58,240 --> 01:14:56,480
character she shocked and the show she

1821
01:15:01,150 --> 01:14:58,250
ain't character from Egypt 22nd dynasty

1822
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:01,160
into one of the same person and because

1823
01:15:05,500 --> 01:15:03,770
this this show shank actually campaigned

1824
01:15:07,479 --> 01:15:05,510
in what we call today modern Israel

1825
01:15:08,740 --> 01:15:07,489
Israel Palestine area so there was a

1826
01:15:10,690 --> 01:15:08,750
sort of connection there but when you

1827
01:15:12,910 --> 01:15:10,700
look into the details of the campaign

1828
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:12,920
they're completely different I mean she

1829
01:15:17,110 --> 01:15:15,530
shock attacks and conquers the kingdom

1830
01:15:18,670 --> 01:15:17,120
of Judah this is in the period ended

1831
01:15:20,140 --> 01:15:18,680
when the Kingdom split into two where

1832
01:15:22,570 --> 01:15:20,150
you have Northern Kingdom of Israel

1833
01:15:24,970 --> 01:15:22,580
Nassau the kingdom of Judah and he

1834
01:15:26,530 --> 01:15:24,980
actually invades the area of Judah in

1835
01:15:27,700 --> 01:15:26,540
the south and conquers the cities there

1836
01:15:30,160 --> 01:15:27,710
and he takes the treasures out of

1837
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:30,170
Jerusalem etc so there was a sort of

1838
01:15:34,690 --> 01:15:32,090
synchronism there that they Egyptologist

1839
01:15:36,430 --> 01:15:34,700
lept upon through shampo liam and it's

1840
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:36,440
never been broken but the fact of the

1841
01:15:39,459 --> 01:15:37,850
matter is that the two campaigns are

1842
01:15:41,170 --> 01:15:39,469
completely different show sheiks

1843
01:15:42,370 --> 01:15:41,180
campaign is in the northern kingdom of

1844
01:15:43,150 --> 01:15:42,380
israel he doesn't actually touch the

1845
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:43,160
kingdom of Judah

1846
01:15:46,959 --> 01:15:45,410
so they contradict each other and the

1847
01:15:49,209 --> 01:15:46,969
two names okay they sound a little bit

1848
01:15:51,550 --> 01:15:49,219
similar she shocked Joe Sheng but it's

1849
01:15:53,709 --> 01:15:51,560
not close enough and what I found was

1850
01:15:56,530 --> 01:15:53,719
that ramasees King Rama seized the

1851
01:15:58,870 --> 01:15:56,540
second he had a what we call a high

1852
01:16:00,880 --> 01:15:58,880
poker istic on that's a lovely word it

1853
01:16:03,910 --> 01:16:00,890
basically means a shortened form of his

1854
01:16:05,440 --> 01:16:03,920
name so for instance you're a Chris

1855
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:05,450
that's a hyper Christic on of

1856
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:08,810
Christopher okay so and Beth is a hyper

1857
01:16:14,170 --> 01:16:11,690
Christian of Elizabeth and so Dan is a

1858
01:16:16,480 --> 01:16:14,180
hyper Krista Connor Daniel so it's got a

1859
01:16:18,700 --> 01:16:16,490
shortened form of his name and his name

1860
01:16:20,140 --> 01:16:18,710
originally is a bit of a mouthful in in

1861
01:16:23,230 --> 01:16:20,150
the ancient language if we call him Rama

1862
01:16:25,350 --> 01:16:23,240
see the second Egyptology was referred

1863
01:16:27,610 --> 01:16:25,360
to as Sumatra said to parry Rama sees

1864
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:27,620
mariamman that's how he's normally

1865
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:30,410
referred to at his full titles but when

1866
01:16:35,620 --> 01:16:33,410
you when you hear it translated into the

1867
01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:35,630
ears of of the Hittites when they wrote

1868
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:37,370
a peace treaty with Rama sees they wrote

1869
01:16:40,930 --> 01:16:39,050
it syllabic Lee so though we actually

1870
01:16:43,300 --> 01:16:40,940
have the vocalization of the sound of

1871
01:16:45,940 --> 01:16:43,310
the name it's very very different it's

1872
01:16:48,850 --> 01:16:45,950
wash Maria shut up Maria really sashimi

1873
01:16:50,350 --> 01:16:48,860
amana that's how it sounds when you

1874
01:16:53,260 --> 01:16:50,360
actually listen to the ancient language

1875
01:16:55,900 --> 01:16:53,270
so Rihanna shishya Mia mana

1876
01:16:58,210 --> 01:16:55,910
Rihanna shisha is the name Rama sees and

1877
01:16:59,650 --> 01:16:58,220
the hypocritical or the short form is

1878
01:17:02,410 --> 01:16:59,660
just the last bit of that name shisha

1879
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:02,420
really shisha so he was called by the

1880
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:04,010
local people didn't have this big long

1881
01:17:08,050 --> 01:17:05,570
name that they just referred to they

1882
01:17:11,260 --> 01:17:08,060
just called him shisha now shisha is

1883
01:17:12,970 --> 01:17:11,270
very close to Shishak and we can

1884
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:12,980
actually even explain the cough I won't

1885
01:17:16,090 --> 01:17:14,570
go into detail now because they've decay

1886
01:17:17,860 --> 01:17:16,100
at the end because that's a complicated

1887
01:17:21,940 --> 01:17:17,870
thing but we can actually find the

1888
01:17:23,650 --> 01:17:21,950
writing of shisha in in if it would be

1889
01:17:26,050 --> 01:17:23,660
written in Semitic in in the Hebrew

1890
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:26,060
would be very similar to Shishak of the

1891
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:28,130
Bible and so it looks like Rama she's

1892
01:17:32,470 --> 01:17:30,650
the second also called shisha by the

1893
01:17:34,210 --> 01:17:32,480
local people was the Pharaoh who

1894
01:17:36,130 --> 01:17:34,220
attacked you down plunder the temple of

1895
01:17:37,870 --> 01:17:36,140
Solomon and took the treasures away not

1896
01:17:39,910 --> 01:17:37,880
sure she ain't the first that makes a

1897
01:17:42,910 --> 01:17:39,920
huge difference in the time line because

1898
01:17:45,790 --> 01:17:42,920
show [\h__\h] in the first was dated via the

1899
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:45,800
biblical to chronology for the fifth

1900
01:17:50,770 --> 01:17:48,170
year of King Rehoboam who was the son of

1901
01:17:53,110 --> 01:17:50,780
Solomon and in that's the date of 9 to 5

1902
01:17:55,990 --> 01:17:53,120
BC in the Bible and so Shawshank was

1903
01:17:57,370 --> 01:17:56,000
given a date of 9 to 5 BC for hit for

1904
01:17:59,260 --> 01:17:57,380
his reign for the end of his reign and

1905
01:18:00,940 --> 01:17:59,270
all Egyptian chronology is based on that

1906
01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:00,950
synchronism but the synchronism is

1907
01:18:04,540 --> 01:18:03,170
simply wrong it's actually around mar 6

1908
01:18:07,690 --> 01:18:04,550
the second who plundered the temple of

1909
01:18:08,470 --> 01:18:07,700
solomon not show shank and for the

1910
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:08,480
Exodus

1911
01:18:14,170 --> 01:18:10,810
I'm gonna try and transition here into

1912
01:18:16,990 --> 01:18:14,180
Moses a little bit what is the date

1913
01:18:19,450 --> 01:18:17,000
that's the date that's primarily given

1914
01:18:23,110 --> 01:18:19,460
is at least mainstream accepted I

1915
01:18:26,110 --> 01:18:23,120
believe as 17 it's around 1750 BC oh no

1916
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:26,120
that's not no that's different no in

1917
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:28,970
conventional dating because they used

1918
01:18:33,340 --> 01:18:31,010
this ramasees connection of the city of

1919
01:18:34,860 --> 01:18:33,350
Ramses as that this decision the store

1920
01:18:37,570 --> 01:18:34,870
city that these White's build the slaves

1921
01:18:40,510 --> 01:18:37,580
they date it to the time of Rama sees

1922
01:18:44,340 --> 01:18:40,520
the second mid reign which is about 1250

1923
01:18:48,610 --> 01:18:44,350
BC now the biblical date is actually

1924
01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:48,620
1447 BC because the they have appeared a

1925
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:50,330
480 years from the building of the

1926
01:18:53,380 --> 01:18:52,250
Temple of Solomon year through sorry the

1927
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:53,390
building of the Temple of Solomon in

1928
01:18:57,670 --> 01:18:55,610
year three of that Kings reign 480 years

1929
01:19:00,580 --> 01:18:57,680
back to the Exodus so that brings us to

1930
01:19:01,930 --> 01:19:00,590
1447 BC but that plunks is right in the

1931
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:01,940
middle of the 18th dynasty in the reign

1932
01:19:06,130 --> 01:19:04,010
of Thutmose the third who was the most

1933
01:19:07,780 --> 01:19:06,140
powerful military Pharaoh in Egyptian

1934
01:19:09,850 --> 01:19:07,790
history is called the Napoleon of

1935
01:19:11,410 --> 01:19:09,860
ancient Egypt and there's no way in the

1936
01:19:13,090 --> 01:19:11,420
world that the exodus took place in his

1937
01:19:15,010 --> 01:19:13,100
reign because he was extremely powerful

1938
01:19:17,200 --> 01:19:15,020
and Egypt continued to be very powerful

1939
01:19:18,730 --> 01:19:17,210
for us at least a century afterwards the

1940
01:19:21,250 --> 01:19:18,740
same goes for Rama Sita Rama seizures

1941
01:19:23,290 --> 01:19:21,260
are very powerful Pharaoh why would you

1942
01:19:24,730 --> 01:19:23,300
have an exodus in either those two kings

1943
01:19:26,410 --> 01:19:24,740
reigns well there's absolutely no sign

1944
01:19:28,330 --> 01:19:26,420
of a collapse of Egyptian civilization

1945
01:19:30,610 --> 01:19:28,340
at that time at all there's no sign of a

1946
01:19:32,170 --> 01:19:30,620
destruction of Egyptian army so that

1947
01:19:34,630 --> 01:19:32,180
doesn't make any sense at all which is

1948
01:19:36,730 --> 01:19:34,640
why in a sense when we look back to the

1949
01:19:38,860 --> 01:19:36,740
13th dynasty which is where I put the

1950
01:19:40,480 --> 01:19:38,870
Exodus we do have a collapse of Egyptian

1951
01:19:43,390 --> 01:19:40,490
civilization there from for centuries

1952
01:19:45,610 --> 01:19:43,400
and and that's when we have a period

1953
01:19:47,170 --> 01:19:45,620
where we can put the Israelites in Egypt

1954
01:19:49,540 --> 01:19:47,180
because we have this massive population

1955
01:19:51,460 --> 01:19:49,550
in the eastern Delta of semis at that

1956
01:19:53,110 --> 01:19:51,470
time and as I said to you they disappear

1957
01:19:54,970 --> 01:19:53,120
from this place and they suddenly turn

1958
01:19:57,850 --> 01:19:54,980
up conquering Jericho and the promised

1959
01:20:00,340 --> 01:19:57,860
land forty years later Moses has been

1960
01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:00,350
attributed to various historical figures

1961
01:20:07,630 --> 01:20:03,170
within either Egypt or an amalgamation

1962
01:20:09,100 --> 01:20:07,640
of various personalities it even some

1963
01:20:12,690 --> 01:20:09,110
people have claimed that he is more of a

1964
01:20:16,180 --> 01:20:12,700
metaphor for you know or or as a parable

1965
01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:16,190
what have you been able to find as far

1966
01:20:22,480 --> 01:20:18,410
as Moses the man what was he a real

1967
01:20:24,070 --> 01:20:22,490
person well I'll kill you selectively

1968
01:20:25,780 --> 01:20:24,080
isn't it you're not going to find every

1969
01:20:27,430 --> 01:20:25,790
single person the Bible mentioned in

1970
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:27,440
text and stuff because that's the nature

1971
01:20:30,250 --> 01:20:29,690
of archaeology archaeology only really

1972
01:20:33,160 --> 01:20:30,260
represents

1973
01:20:34,780 --> 01:20:33,170
% of history what we've excavated so far

1974
01:20:36,370 --> 01:20:34,790
to another 90% we're going to learn from

1975
01:20:39,190 --> 01:20:36,380
archeology eventually over the decades

1976
01:20:41,830 --> 01:20:39,200
and centuries as we keep digging so we

1977
01:20:44,350 --> 01:20:41,840
only have a small window of looking at

1978
01:20:46,740 --> 01:20:44,360
this material it just happens to be that

1979
01:20:49,510 --> 01:20:46,750
we have a lot of material that seems to

1980
01:20:50,710 --> 01:20:49,520
identify Joseph for us in Egypt we seem

1981
01:20:52,570 --> 01:20:50,720
to have found a lot of material for that

1982
01:20:55,780 --> 01:20:52,580
but for Moses is a little bit more

1983
01:20:57,640 --> 01:20:55,790
difficult we may have found him as a

1984
01:20:59,770 --> 01:20:57,650
Prince of Egypt we'd certainly know the

1985
01:21:01,390 --> 01:20:59,780
name of the Pharaoh who raised him as a

1986
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:01,400
Prince of Egypt that's actually giving

1987
01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:04,010
in the writings of Arthur Parnas he

1988
01:21:07,690 --> 01:21:06,050
tells us that the the Pharaoh raised

1989
01:21:10,480 --> 01:21:07,700
Moses as a prince

1990
01:21:13,090 --> 01:21:10,490
in the land was called Ken offer s now

1991
01:21:15,070 --> 01:21:13,100
he's writing in Greek for his Greek

1992
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:15,080
masters the ptolemies in Egypt in the in

1993
01:21:19,690 --> 01:21:16,610
the late period or dynasties the

1994
01:21:21,370 --> 01:21:19,700
greco-roman period but he's writing this

1995
01:21:22,630 --> 01:21:21,380
document for Alexandrian library and he

1996
01:21:25,030 --> 01:21:22,640
talked he writes a history of the Jews

1997
01:21:26,860 --> 01:21:25,040
and in there he mentions the king called

1998
01:21:28,750 --> 01:21:26,870
can offer us as them as king who raised

1999
01:21:31,690 --> 01:21:28,760
Moses as a child and a Prince of Egypt

2000
01:21:34,090 --> 01:21:31,700
now that's Greek if we translate that

2001
01:21:36,790 --> 01:21:34,100
back into Egyptian it becomes karne for

2002
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:36,800
a or karna for our and karne for our was

2003
01:21:42,670 --> 01:21:40,010
that the throne name the coronation name

2004
01:21:44,410 --> 01:21:42,680
if you like of one particular fair and

2005
01:21:46,450 --> 01:21:44,420
only want fairness Gyptian history was

2006
01:21:48,340 --> 01:21:46,460
karne for a sober coach at the 4th there

2007
01:21:50,620 --> 01:21:48,350
is no other King in Egyptian history

2008
01:21:53,110 --> 01:21:50,630
with that name karna for a so we can

2009
01:21:55,660 --> 01:21:53,120
identify the Pharaoh who race Moses so

2010
01:21:57,910 --> 01:21:55,670
begat at the 4th who was a king a major

2011
01:21:59,560 --> 01:21:57,920
king of the 13th dynasty that place is

2012
01:22:04,300 --> 01:21:59,570
exactly where we've got the Exodus in

2013
01:22:07,270 --> 01:22:04,310
that period and was the second

2014
01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:07,280
intermediate period in in european was

2015
01:22:13,330 --> 01:22:11,810
that caused by the exodus i know yes so

2016
01:22:14,980 --> 01:22:13,340
there there have been various theories

2017
01:22:16,180 --> 01:22:14,990
one being posed by herself which

2018
01:22:19,540 --> 01:22:16,190
actually seems to make a lot of sense

2019
01:22:22,540 --> 01:22:19,550
that's during the exodus period when the

2020
01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:22,550
somatic peoples were leaving egypt that

2021
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:25,370
and to be able to use a very cool quill

2022
01:22:28,510 --> 01:22:27,770
term they wrecked stuff like you

2023
01:22:33,790 --> 01:22:28,520
wouldn't believe

2024
01:22:35,650 --> 01:22:33,800
on their way out well what's been found

2025
01:22:38,260 --> 01:22:35,660
either archaeological or within the

2026
01:22:40,530 --> 01:22:38,270
written record that can attribute that

2027
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:40,540
exodus to the beginning of that decline

2028
01:22:44,050 --> 01:22:43,730
well there's a very famous Pat papyrus

2029
01:22:45,850 --> 01:22:44,060
cool

2030
01:22:47,830 --> 01:22:45,860
people were papyrus of the admonitions

2031
01:22:50,650 --> 01:22:47,840
of an Egyptian sage is its formal title

2032
01:22:52,420 --> 01:22:50,660
which is written a little bit later but

2033
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:52,430
refers back to this particular parent it

2034
01:22:56,860 --> 01:22:53,810
talks about the collapse of Egyptian

2035
01:22:59,470 --> 01:22:56,870
civilization it talks about the river

2036
01:23:01,870 --> 01:22:59,480
turning into blood it talks about the

2037
01:23:04,330 --> 01:23:01,880
darkness coming upon the land it talks

2038
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:04,340
about the crops being destroyed like the

2039
01:23:08,410 --> 01:23:05,810
locusts or whatever it is in the

2040
01:23:10,630 --> 01:23:08,420
template and the templates and then

2041
01:23:13,750 --> 01:23:10,640
refers to an extraordinary expression he

2042
01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:13,760
says the slaves are wearing the gold of

2043
01:23:17,860 --> 01:23:16,130
the mass of their masters their slaves

2044
01:23:19,870 --> 01:23:17,870
are wearing the clothes of their masters

2045
01:23:21,790 --> 01:23:19,880
which is like extraordinary but that's

2046
01:23:23,590 --> 01:23:21,800
exactly what this biblical story tells

2047
01:23:25,570 --> 01:23:23,600
us because after the 10th plague the

2048
01:23:27,310 --> 01:23:25,580
Egyptians give this lay to the gold and

2049
01:23:28,510 --> 01:23:27,320
their clothes say get out of the country

2050
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:28,520
we don't want you here anymore

2051
01:23:32,860 --> 01:23:30,530
you know we're so fed up with these

2052
01:23:36,340 --> 01:23:32,870
plagues killing all our people and our

2053
01:23:38,740 --> 01:23:36,350
firstborn etc so this story this Apple

2054
01:23:40,900 --> 01:23:38,750
papyrus seems to reflect exactly the

2055
01:23:43,540 --> 01:23:40,910
story in the book of Exodus of the

2056
01:23:45,310 --> 01:23:43,550
Israelite slaves and the templates them

2057
01:23:47,260 --> 01:23:45,320
leaving with the wealth of Egypt and

2058
01:23:50,530 --> 01:23:47,270
going out to Sinai it's all there in

2059
01:23:51,790 --> 01:23:50,540
this people papyrus so and that is dated

2060
01:23:53,350 --> 01:23:51,800
to the same period as all this

2061
01:23:55,390 --> 01:23:53,360
archaeology I'm talking to you about the

2062
01:24:02,080 --> 01:23:55,400
end of the 13th dynasty so it fits

2063
01:24:05,770 --> 01:24:02,090
beautifully now moving on to Sinai yeah

2064
01:24:09,970 --> 01:24:05,780
there are some icky I know that there is

2065
01:24:13,780 --> 01:24:09,980
a trying to find though like a chapel a

2066
01:24:17,470 --> 01:24:13,790
sort of a cathedral that is there where

2067
01:24:18,940 --> 01:24:17,480
there is a say the bush the bush that is

2068
01:24:20,530 --> 01:24:18,950
claimed to be the burning bush it's it's

2069
01:24:22,950 --> 01:24:20,540
okay if I'm not mistaken which is

2070
01:24:25,090 --> 01:24:22,960
essentially overgrown the entire area

2071
01:24:26,290 --> 01:24:25,100
some you talking about are you talking

2072
01:24:27,100 --> 01:24:26,300
about sick Catherine's Monastery I

2073
01:24:30,540 --> 01:24:27,110
believe I am actually talking about

2074
01:24:33,310 --> 01:24:30,550
snake a monster right okay yeah okay

2075
01:24:35,260 --> 01:24:33,320
there being claimed to have been the

2076
01:24:36,690 --> 01:24:35,270
burning bush or at least a bush it had

2077
01:24:40,210 --> 01:24:36,700
been around for a very long time

2078
01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:40,220
what's evidence or findings have been

2079
01:24:43,660 --> 01:24:41,690
found around Sinai that can that can

2080
01:24:46,390 --> 01:24:43,670
attribute a very large amount of

2081
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:46,400
people's being there well the burning

2082
01:24:49,750 --> 01:24:48,170
bush is a bit of a red herring isn't it

2083
01:24:51,820 --> 01:24:49,760
because I mean we don't a we don't know

2084
01:24:53,830 --> 01:24:51,830
what the burning bush means you know

2085
01:24:55,780 --> 01:24:53,840
it's allegorical is it a real phenomenon

2086
01:24:57,250 --> 01:24:55,790
of some sort something we at KU can't

2087
01:24:59,620 --> 01:24:57,260
explain through science

2088
01:25:01,150 --> 01:24:59,630
the fact that this bushes in Cygnus

2089
01:25:02,590 --> 01:25:01,160
monastery is basically just a tourist

2090
01:25:04,300 --> 01:25:02,600
attraction that the monks have had firts

2091
01:25:05,830 --> 01:25:04,310
it's the medieval period I mean we you

2092
01:25:08,260 --> 01:25:05,840
know it's something to draw people there

2093
01:25:10,780 --> 01:25:08,270
to bring money to the monastery so we

2094
01:25:12,790 --> 01:25:10,790
can't really use that as evidence you

2095
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:12,800
know so to speak so I can't address that

2096
01:25:17,110 --> 01:25:15,050
issue but what we can address is the

2097
01:25:18,940 --> 01:25:17,120
actual locale or location there

2098
01:25:20,980 --> 01:25:18,950
some people argue it's impossible for a

2099
01:25:23,350 --> 01:25:20,990
large group of people to be camped at

2100
01:25:24,730 --> 01:25:23,360
the foot of Jebel Musa in that area

2101
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:24,740
rancic governance well that's simply not

2102
01:25:28,420 --> 01:25:27,050
true there are plane which is actually

2103
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:28,430
there Natan s it covers monasteries

2104
01:25:33,220 --> 01:25:31,010
massive a huge plane easily big enough

2105
01:25:34,420 --> 01:25:33,230
to take a large encampment of people so

2106
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:34,430
there's no issue about that and I've

2107
01:25:37,480 --> 01:25:35,570
already explained to you there's plenty

2108
01:25:40,240 --> 01:25:37,490
of water in that region so they wouldn't

2109
01:25:41,500 --> 01:25:40,250
have lacked water so there's good

2110
01:25:43,870 --> 01:25:41,510
reasons to say that this is a good

2111
01:25:45,670 --> 01:25:43,880
location for the story being set where

2112
01:25:47,620 --> 01:25:45,680
the Israelites were for at least

2113
01:25:49,390 --> 01:25:47,630
probably nine months before they left

2114
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:49,400
again to go up towards the promised land

2115
01:25:53,830 --> 01:25:51,530
and then of course we have this writing

2116
01:25:56,140 --> 01:25:53,840
of the so-called Ten Commandments well

2117
01:25:57,730 --> 01:25:56,150
in order for that to be done that there

2118
01:25:59,440 --> 01:25:57,740
must be a script and I've already

2119
01:26:02,080 --> 01:25:59,450
explained to you that that we have now

2120
01:26:04,660 --> 01:26:02,090
evidence of a direct alphabetic script

2121
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:04,670
been written in Sinai been carved on the

2122
01:26:08,410 --> 01:26:06,650
rocks surfaces there which would have

2123
01:26:11,110 --> 01:26:08,420
been the script that Moses used to write

2124
01:26:12,610 --> 01:26:11,120
the Ten Commandments so we actually we

2125
01:26:14,950 --> 01:26:12,620
actually have those letters those

2126
01:26:16,330 --> 01:26:14,960
alphabetic letters of early Hebrew what

2127
01:26:18,730 --> 01:26:16,340
we call proto-sinaitic

2128
01:26:21,370 --> 01:26:18,740
which would be very convincing evidence

2129
01:26:23,020 --> 01:26:21,380
especially when you you translate them

2130
01:26:24,340 --> 01:26:23,030
into Hebrew you read those texts as

2131
01:26:26,170 --> 01:26:24,350
Hebrew but if you're Abraham then you

2132
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:26,180
get amazing things happening there's

2133
01:26:30,790 --> 01:26:28,850
references to the golden calf for

2134
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:30,800
instance I mean it is a strange story

2135
01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:33,770
about the the when Moses up the mountain

2136
01:26:37,870 --> 01:26:35,930
getting the Ten Commandments the people

2137
01:26:39,490 --> 01:26:37,880
down below make this golden calf and

2138
01:26:42,130 --> 01:26:39,500
they get into this debauched drunken

2139
01:26:44,710 --> 01:26:42,140
festival thing going on and and we

2140
01:26:47,020 --> 01:26:44,720
actually we now know what that golden

2141
01:26:51,070 --> 01:26:47,030
calf was all about because the goddess

2142
01:26:53,020 --> 01:26:51,080
of Sinai was Hathor or hat [\h__\h] who was

2143
01:26:55,330 --> 01:26:53,030
a cow goddess and she's referred to as

2144
01:26:57,760 --> 01:26:55,340
the golden one and she's worshipped in

2145
01:26:59,830 --> 01:26:57,770
Sinai at a temple there in a place

2146
01:27:01,960 --> 01:26:59,840
called Sarah Battelle Kadeem and she's

2147
01:27:03,490 --> 01:27:01,970
referred to by the Semitic peoples who

2148
01:27:05,920 --> 01:27:03,500
worked the mines there the turquoise

2149
01:27:08,290 --> 01:27:05,930
mines and the copper mines as ballot and

2150
01:27:11,010 --> 01:27:08,300
barley' means the lady it translates

2151
01:27:13,440 --> 01:27:11,020
into the is the salt female form of bow

2152
01:27:16,230 --> 01:27:13,450
and and we have text actually written in

2153
01:27:19,140 --> 01:27:16,240
this proto-sinaitic which says that the

2154
01:27:21,990 --> 01:27:19,150
people who drifted towards or went to

2155
01:27:24,690 --> 01:27:22,000
worship by lat the lady ie hat or were

2156
01:27:26,070 --> 01:27:24,700
killed and that's exactly the story in

2157
01:27:27,210 --> 01:27:26,080
the Bible because the gold the people

2158
01:27:29,190 --> 01:27:27,220
who worship the golden calf

2159
01:27:31,110 --> 01:27:29,200
Moses ordered their killing he told them

2160
01:27:33,870 --> 01:27:31,120
to be killed 11 Levites when it killed

2161
01:27:35,820 --> 01:27:33,880
them all so there's references to this

2162
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:35,830
golden calf in the text there there's

2163
01:27:41,730 --> 01:27:38,650
references to manna this this this food

2164
01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:41,740
that the Israelites wrote sorry used old

2165
01:27:46,050 --> 01:27:44,410
ette in the in the Sinai desert there's

2166
01:27:48,150 --> 01:27:46,060
references in these proto-sinaitic texts

2167
01:27:49,770 --> 01:27:48,160
to that as well and there's references

2168
01:27:51,150 --> 01:27:49,780
to them coming out of Egypt there's

2169
01:27:53,010 --> 01:27:51,160
references to the Pharaoh of the

2170
01:27:55,350 --> 01:27:53,020
oppression all these things are written

2171
01:27:57,570 --> 01:27:55,360
in this is alphabetic script in the

2172
01:27:59,340 --> 01:27:57,580
rocks of Sinai so it's very clear that

2173
01:28:01,950 --> 01:27:59,350
they're connected to the biblical story

2174
01:28:05,310 --> 01:28:01,960
of Exodus now what is your opinion on

2175
01:28:09,750 --> 01:28:05,320
the plagues and catastrophes what and

2176
01:28:13,050 --> 01:28:09,760
also were there any besides the the

2177
01:28:14,460 --> 01:28:13,060
final plague oh and I'd actually think

2178
01:28:16,710 --> 01:28:14,470
that you actually mentioned the the

2179
01:28:19,860 --> 01:28:16,720
water turning red as well yeah what

2180
01:28:22,890 --> 01:28:19,870
other documentation whether in proto

2181
01:28:25,740 --> 01:28:22,900
scientific or in Egyptian has been found

2182
01:28:27,330 --> 01:28:25,750
to attribute to the plagues okay nothing

2183
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:27,340
in the proto-sinaitic other than the

2184
01:28:32,040 --> 01:28:30,010
fact they mentions the the the garden of

2185
01:28:33,450 --> 01:28:32,050
oppression went and eat constantly in

2186
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:33,460
the Bible Egypt is referred to as a

2187
01:28:38,190 --> 01:28:35,530
garden because it's so rich and fertile

2188
01:28:40,260 --> 01:28:38,200
so it refers to the garden of the

2189
01:28:41,940 --> 01:28:40,270
oppression and bringing uprooting the

2190
01:28:43,230 --> 01:28:41,950
people of the garden of the oppression

2191
01:28:45,450 --> 01:28:43,240
which is the removal of the Israelites

2192
01:28:47,750 --> 01:28:45,460
out of Egypt into Sinai but we don't

2193
01:28:49,950 --> 01:28:47,760
have any mention of any of the plagues

2194
01:28:52,530 --> 01:28:49,960
but their plates are difficult one

2195
01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:52,540
because the first group of them are

2196
01:28:56,850 --> 01:28:54,850
being tried to be explained by many

2197
01:28:59,520 --> 01:28:56,860
people through science and it's possible

2198
01:29:02,220 --> 01:28:59,530
to argue phenomena that we would call

2199
01:29:04,200 --> 01:29:02,230
natural phenomena explaining things like

2200
01:29:07,350 --> 01:29:04,210
the locusts and the darkness and there

2201
01:29:09,750 --> 01:29:07,360
and they and the boils and the flies and

2202
01:29:11,460 --> 01:29:09,760
the frogs and the the red that they've

2203
01:29:13,110 --> 01:29:11,470
see turning oh sorry the waters of the

2204
01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:13,120
Nile turning red all those things you

2205
01:29:17,790 --> 01:29:15,250
can explain through natural phenomena

2206
01:29:21,180 --> 01:29:17,800
events in nature what you can't explain

2207
01:29:22,470 --> 01:29:21,190
is the death of the firstborn that one

2208
01:29:24,870 --> 01:29:22,480
is something that nobody can really

2209
01:29:27,540 --> 01:29:24,880
explain and I can't explain either

2210
01:29:29,669 --> 01:29:27,550
it does we do have evidence at the end

2211
01:29:31,919 --> 01:29:29,679
of the 13th dynasty that our plague pits

2212
01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:31,929
in the ground at the city of a virus

2213
01:29:35,610 --> 01:29:33,730
where the Israelites were living where

2214
01:29:38,010 --> 01:29:35,620
people's bodies just be tossed in on top

2215
01:29:39,750 --> 01:29:38,020
of each other that something terrible

2216
01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:39,760
happened at that point and immediately

2217
01:29:43,290 --> 01:29:41,650
afterwards the Asiatic people's the

2218
01:29:45,180 --> 01:29:43,300
people the Semitic people's left the

2219
01:29:46,500 --> 01:29:45,190
city so it sounds like the exodus sounds

2220
01:29:48,450 --> 01:29:46,510
like this could be the tenth plague this

2221
01:29:50,280 --> 01:29:48,460
evidence of these bodies in the ground

2222
01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:50,290
they don't have any grave goods with

2223
01:29:53,729 --> 01:29:51,370
them they're just tossed in on top of

2224
01:29:55,770 --> 01:29:53,739
each other but what it is and how it can

2225
01:29:57,600 --> 01:29:55,780
be so selective as to pick out only the

2226
01:30:00,060 --> 01:29:57,610
firstborn that's something that's that

2227
01:30:01,860 --> 01:30:00,070
science can't explain and it's nothing

2228
01:30:03,959 --> 01:30:01,870
that as a historian I can explain I mean

2229
01:30:05,640 --> 01:30:03,969
I can't deal with theological issues

2230
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:05,650
like that I can only deal with

2231
01:30:09,689 --> 01:30:07,090
archaeology I can only deal with

2232
01:30:10,770 --> 01:30:09,699
historical documents and when we're

2233
01:30:14,129 --> 01:30:10,780
dealing with something that we could

2234
01:30:16,500 --> 01:30:14,139
call supernatural ie selective deaths of

2235
01:30:18,180 --> 01:30:16,510
certain peoples in a community then I

2236
01:30:19,950 --> 01:30:18,190
can't handle a hide in a way I can

2237
01:30:25,229 --> 01:30:19,960
actually explain that and I'm not even

2238
01:30:28,830 --> 01:30:25,239
gonna try and for individuals who may

2239
01:30:31,709 --> 01:30:28,840
look to other historical figures I know

2240
01:30:33,629 --> 01:30:31,719
that there is a a King Mesha of Moab who

2241
01:30:36,060 --> 01:30:33,639
has been attributed either in theme or

2242
01:30:37,770 --> 01:30:36,070
an actual likeness to individuals such

2243
01:30:40,229 --> 01:30:37,780
as Moses how would you be able to

2244
01:30:43,470 --> 01:30:40,239
explain to somebody that no this may not

2245
01:30:44,399 --> 01:30:43,480
actually be you know these are the

2246
01:30:46,620 --> 01:30:44,409
differences you would need to be able to

2247
01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:46,630
look for to say that this historical

2248
01:30:51,149 --> 01:30:48,610
figure it can not be attributed to

2249
01:30:53,180 --> 01:30:51,159
somebody like Moses right well you first

2250
01:30:55,590 --> 01:30:53,190
of all you've got to be not be naive

2251
01:30:58,169 --> 01:30:55,600
just because a name sound symbol of

2252
01:31:00,840 --> 01:30:58,179
Moshe Mesha doesn't mean that the same

2253
01:31:02,129 --> 01:31:00,850
person you know so you have to forget

2254
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:02,139
that idea you have to look at the

2255
01:31:07,350 --> 01:31:04,570
history there the Mesha stone that was

2256
01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:07,360
found in you know in Jordan mentions the

2257
01:31:12,870 --> 01:31:10,810
king of Israel called a hab okay so we

2258
01:31:14,820 --> 01:31:12,880
know that measure was contempt with a

2259
01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:14,830
havin a hab was a king who came long

2260
01:31:19,530 --> 01:31:17,170
after Solomon nothing to do with Moses

2261
01:31:22,020 --> 01:31:19,540
Moses is much earlier than King Solomon

2262
01:31:23,729 --> 01:31:22,030
so they cannot be connected just because

2263
01:31:24,660 --> 01:31:23,739
you've got a couple of consonants that

2264
01:31:27,270 --> 01:31:24,670
look similar

2265
01:31:29,520 --> 01:31:27,280
am ia mana Sheen does not mean that they

2266
01:31:30,689 --> 01:31:29,530
are the same individual and you have to

2267
01:31:33,090 --> 01:31:30,699
be very careful with that sort of thing

2268
01:31:35,129 --> 01:31:33,100
it's over simplistic to compare names

2269
01:31:38,790 --> 01:31:35,139
and suddenly make equations because

2270
01:31:40,410 --> 01:31:38,800
names sound similar so you know you can

2271
01:31:43,500 --> 01:31:40,420
you can take an example for instance of

2272
01:31:44,910 --> 01:31:43,510
the English word bow you you have many

2273
01:31:46,140 --> 01:31:44,920
meanings of the word bow on how it's

2274
01:31:47,880 --> 01:31:46,150
written is different you have the bow

2275
01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:47,890
battery you know you can bow down before

2276
01:31:51,570 --> 01:31:50,290
a king you know so you just because

2277
01:31:56,160 --> 01:31:51,580
something sounds the same does it

2278
01:32:00,150 --> 01:31:56,170
doesn't mean it means the same now for

2279
01:32:03,480 --> 01:32:00,160
the life of Moses himself their results

2280
01:32:05,040 --> 01:32:03,490
the memorial of of Moses at Mount San Mo

2281
01:32:07,740 --> 01:32:05,050
in Jordan yeah

2282
01:32:10,020 --> 01:32:07,750
yeah did you manage to visit that

2283
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:10,030
location yeah we filmed that we filmed

2284
01:32:13,380 --> 01:32:11,890
there and although it's very

2285
01:32:15,570 --> 01:32:13,390
commercialized now there's not much you

2286
01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:15,580
can actually identify with the story of

2287
01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:17,770
Moses but it's a very impressive place

2288
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:20,050
to stand and look out across the Jordan

2289
01:32:23,550 --> 01:32:21,850
Valley in the Dead Sea and you can

2290
01:32:25,710 --> 01:32:23,560
virtually view the entire Promised Land

2291
01:32:28,620 --> 01:32:25,720
from there on a good day so the story

2292
01:32:30,840 --> 01:32:28,630
would be logical if if Moses was to be

2293
01:32:33,360 --> 01:32:30,850
buried somewhere and not permitted by

2294
01:32:35,220 --> 01:32:33,370
God to cross over the Jordan into the

2295
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:35,230
Promised Land then this is as good a

2296
01:32:39,180 --> 01:32:36,730
place as any for that to happen but

2297
01:32:40,890 --> 01:32:39,190
there's nothing physically there that

2298
01:32:42,990 --> 01:32:40,900
would would prove that I mean what could

2299
01:32:45,270 --> 01:32:43,000
you prove our man stands on a mountain

2300
01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:45,280
he looks at cross the Jordan he dies and

2301
01:32:47,970 --> 01:32:46,810
is buried somewhere in that region well

2302
01:32:50,220 --> 01:32:47,980
you're not going to find the archaeology

2303
01:32:51,690 --> 01:32:50,230
for that are you so that we have

2304
01:32:54,240 --> 01:32:51,700
difficult with that sort of thing we can

2305
01:32:55,980 --> 01:32:54,250
where as with Aaron we actually find his

2306
01:32:59,340 --> 01:32:55,990
tomb we've we'd that's been known for

2307
01:33:01,470 --> 01:32:59,350
centuries and centuries and we have a an

2308
01:33:03,990 --> 01:33:01,480
Islamic shrine on top of it so we know

2309
01:33:05,550 --> 01:33:04,000
where that is when it's written about in

2310
01:33:08,400 --> 01:33:05,560
the ancient writings it's written about

2311
01:33:10,110 --> 01:33:08,410
in there by the early church fathers so

2312
01:33:11,700 --> 01:33:10,120
we know about that we can actually

2313
01:33:13,020 --> 01:33:11,710
identify that we can't find Aaron's body

2314
01:33:14,520 --> 01:33:13,030
that's long gone but we can actually

2315
01:33:14,970 --> 01:33:14,530
find the cave in which he perhaps was

2316
01:33:17,040 --> 01:33:14,980
buried

2317
01:33:18,540 --> 01:33:17,050
one day maybe somebody will find the

2318
01:33:21,000 --> 01:33:18,550
cave of Moses burial

2319
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:21,010
that's the possibility but as it is for

2320
01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:22,810
now nobody's actually probably looking

2321
01:33:25,650 --> 01:33:23,290
for it

2322
01:33:29,010 --> 01:33:25,660
from his death and in the passing of

2323
01:33:33,030 --> 01:33:29,020
leading of other peoples to list up to

2324
01:33:35,310 --> 01:33:33,040
the promised land to his brother not his

2325
01:33:37,170 --> 01:33:35,320
brother Joshua Joshua was the was given

2326
01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:37,180
command of the army after Moses died

2327
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:39,730
Aaron died three years was three years

2328
01:33:44,700 --> 01:33:40,930
older than most and he died the year

2329
01:33:46,830 --> 01:33:44,710
before Moses now again thank you very

2330
01:33:50,010 --> 01:33:46,840
much for that correction that's in

2331
01:33:53,820 --> 01:33:50,020
incorrectly remembering facts about a

2332
01:33:57,210 --> 01:33:53,830
I've read since I was a kid right I

2333
01:34:00,090 --> 01:33:57,220
worry if you look at the Stork all

2334
01:34:02,580 --> 01:34:00,100
fingers and leading on to let's say

2335
01:34:04,770 --> 01:34:02,590
Daniel and his continuing on and and

2336
01:34:06,360 --> 01:34:04,780
finally the the rebuilding of or at

2337
01:34:08,610 --> 01:34:06,370
least the planning of the temple and the

2338
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:08,620
building of the temple by by King

2339
01:34:14,940 --> 01:34:12,970
Solomon there there is very little to be

2340
01:34:18,470 --> 01:34:14,950
able to at least demonstrate that the

2341
01:34:22,290 --> 01:34:18,480
the first temple existed I know within

2342
01:34:24,690 --> 01:34:22,300
some mythologies such as Freemasonry its

2343
01:34:27,480 --> 01:34:24,700
either taken as historical fact with a

2344
01:34:30,870 --> 01:34:27,490
very very large mythology but can still

2345
01:34:32,400 --> 01:34:30,880
be seen as as metaphorical what have you

2346
01:34:35,430 --> 01:34:32,410
have been able to find during your

2347
01:34:37,410 --> 01:34:35,440
journeys well clearly the Temple Mount

2348
01:34:39,630 --> 01:34:37,420
is a very difficult area to do much work

2349
01:34:41,430 --> 01:34:39,640
in the Palestinian authorities did not

2350
01:34:43,470 --> 01:34:41,440
allow an egg have any excavations on the

2351
01:34:46,200 --> 01:34:43,480
Temple Mount so you're never going to be

2352
01:34:47,820 --> 01:34:46,210
able to dig that up and actually find

2353
01:34:49,950 --> 01:34:47,830
the foundations if you like of the

2354
01:34:52,190 --> 01:34:49,960
Solomonic temple even the Herodian

2355
01:34:55,110 --> 01:34:52,200
temple King Herod's temple Second Temple

2356
01:34:56,400 --> 01:34:55,120
however there are some interesting clues

2357
01:34:58,740 --> 01:34:56,410
and I think it's probably worth

2358
01:35:01,680 --> 01:34:58,750
exploring those the first thing is that

2359
01:35:04,530 --> 01:35:01,690
the orientation of ancient temples

2360
01:35:06,840 --> 01:35:04,540
especially the temple jerusalem was

2361
01:35:08,430 --> 01:35:06,850
towards the east in other words if you

2362
01:35:10,680 --> 01:35:08,440
were to imagine opening the doors of the

2363
01:35:12,720 --> 01:35:10,690
temple the sun would rise opposite and

2364
01:35:14,250 --> 01:35:12,730
the light would shine into the temple

2365
01:35:16,830 --> 01:35:14,260
that's the orientation always towards

2366
01:35:19,500 --> 01:35:16,840
the east now when you look at the temple

2367
01:35:20,990 --> 01:35:19,510
mount construction looking east is the

2368
01:35:24,390 --> 01:35:21,000
Mount of Olives from the Temple Mount

2369
01:35:25,860 --> 01:35:24,400
okay and if you know the topography of

2370
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:25,870
the place you'll know that the Golden

2371
01:35:30,510 --> 01:35:27,850
Gate is in the eastern side of the

2372
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:30,520
Temple Mount but it's not aligned with

2373
01:35:34,560 --> 01:35:33,010
the Dome of the rock and the Dome of the

2374
01:35:36,270 --> 01:35:34,570
rock is the Muslim shrine which is on

2375
01:35:38,460 --> 01:35:36,280
top of the highest point of the mountain

2376
01:35:40,140 --> 01:35:38,470
and that is where most conventional

2377
01:35:41,880 --> 01:35:40,150
scholars would place the building of the

2378
01:35:45,030 --> 01:35:41,890
Temple of Solomon the temple of Herod I

2379
01:35:47,190 --> 01:35:45,040
don't do that I say no no no that

2380
01:35:48,810 --> 01:35:47,200
doesn't make sense at all the eastern

2381
01:35:51,410 --> 01:35:48,820
gate of the temple which then becomes

2382
01:35:54,120 --> 01:35:51,420
the Golden Gate would have been

2383
01:35:56,730 --> 01:35:54,130
orientated along the axis of the temple

2384
01:35:58,590 --> 01:35:56,740
facing east so what you have to do is

2385
01:36:00,360 --> 01:35:58,600
you have to draw a line from sunrise on

2386
01:36:03,060 --> 01:36:00,370
that on the Mount of Olives directly

2387
01:36:03,780 --> 01:36:03,070
through the Golden Gate onto the Temple

2388
01:36:04,890 --> 01:36:03,790
Mount

2389
01:36:06,690 --> 01:36:04,900
and if you draw a straight line through

2390
01:36:10,140 --> 01:36:06,700
there you come to a little copular or

2391
01:36:11,310 --> 01:36:10,150
dome with eight columns on it which it's

2392
01:36:14,580 --> 01:36:11,320
not more than about a meter and a half

2393
01:36:18,030 --> 01:36:14,590
wide the diameter of it and it covers an

2394
01:36:20,760 --> 01:36:18,040
exposed area of the mountain a flat

2395
01:36:22,860 --> 01:36:20,770
block that's there and it's and the rest

2396
01:36:25,200 --> 01:36:22,870
of it around there is all flagstones but

2397
01:36:27,360 --> 01:36:25,210
this one place where the storm is is

2398
01:36:29,640 --> 01:36:27,370
actually the surface of the mountain at

2399
01:36:31,980 --> 01:36:29,650
that point and it's actually flat it's

2400
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:31,990
like a threshing floor now the building

2401
01:36:35,850 --> 01:36:33,850
of the temple was put on top of the

2402
01:36:39,060 --> 01:36:35,860
threshing floor that was bought by King

2403
01:36:40,770 --> 01:36:39,070
David from the local Jebusite so it

2404
01:36:42,510 --> 01:36:40,780
would have been a flat area the area

2405
01:36:44,220 --> 01:36:42,520
where the golden the Dome of the rock is

2406
01:36:45,990 --> 01:36:44,230
it's not flat at all it's got a hilly

2407
01:36:47,970 --> 01:36:46,000
rocky thing inside it so you couldn't

2408
01:36:51,360 --> 01:36:47,980
build a temple there anyway and this

2409
01:36:53,550 --> 01:36:51,370
tucked this particular dome covers what

2410
01:36:55,470 --> 01:36:53,560
we believe to be the foundation stone of

2411
01:36:57,510 --> 01:36:55,480
the temple and it's directly in line

2412
01:37:00,030 --> 01:36:57,520
with the Golden Gate and sunrise on the

2413
01:37:02,970 --> 01:37:00,040
Mount of Olives and that this this

2414
01:37:06,330 --> 01:37:02,980
copula this this dome is called the dome

2415
01:37:09,000 --> 01:37:06,340
of the tablets now what was in the

2416
01:37:12,450 --> 01:37:09,010
temple was the Ark containing the

2417
01:37:14,130 --> 01:37:12,460
tablets of Moses so this appears to be

2418
01:37:16,170 --> 01:37:14,140
the very spot where the Ark of the

2419
01:37:17,940 --> 01:37:16,180
Covenant was placed in the Holy of

2420
01:37:20,460 --> 01:37:17,950
Holies of the temple at the back of the

2421
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:20,470
temple orientated eastwards towards the

2422
01:37:23,400 --> 01:37:21,970
Golden Gate all the original gate

2423
01:37:25,230 --> 01:37:23,410
underneath the Golden Gate toward the

2424
01:37:27,360 --> 01:37:25,240
Mount of Olives and that seems to be

2425
01:37:30,750 --> 01:37:27,370
where the location of the temple was not

2426
01:37:33,140 --> 01:37:30,760
where the Golden Dome is today oh man

2427
01:37:36,360 --> 01:37:33,150
that is awesome

2428
01:37:39,090 --> 01:37:36,370
what is significant for it and I don't

2429
01:37:41,640 --> 01:37:39,100
want to get too political here but one

2430
01:37:44,970 --> 01:37:41,650
of the great crises of Jerusalem is the

2431
01:37:48,360 --> 01:37:44,980
wish upon on the part of Christians and

2432
01:37:51,060 --> 01:37:48,370
Jews to rebuild the Temple of Solomon on

2433
01:37:53,400 --> 01:37:51,070
the original foundations of that temple

2434
01:37:54,900 --> 01:37:53,410
but of course the Muslims Islam will not

2435
01:37:57,480 --> 01:37:54,910
permit that because they think it's

2436
01:37:59,820 --> 01:37:57,490
under the golden dome which is in fact

2437
01:38:01,950 --> 01:37:59,830
the shrine where to dedicated to where

2438
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:01,960
Mohammed rose to heaven on his white

2439
01:38:05,760 --> 01:38:03,610
horse remember that story when he when

2440
01:38:11,580 --> 01:38:05,770
he flew from Mecca and it's all part of

2441
01:38:13,590 --> 01:38:11,590
the the the quran's stories of so that's

2442
01:38:16,890 --> 01:38:13,600
the basis of that particular location so

2443
01:38:17,669 --> 01:38:16,900
if you build on this new site that I've

2444
01:38:19,649 --> 01:38:17,679
explained to you

2445
01:38:21,509 --> 01:38:19,659
doma they don't with the tablet site

2446
01:38:24,779 --> 01:38:21,519
that's adjacent to the Dome of the rock

2447
01:38:26,729 --> 01:38:24,789
to the north so you could build a temple

2448
01:38:29,429 --> 01:38:26,739
of Solomon there and not destroy the

2449
01:38:32,459 --> 01:38:29,439
Islamic shrine or the the mosque there

2450
01:38:34,350 --> 01:38:32,469
so you could actually build the three

2451
01:38:37,199 --> 01:38:34,360
shrines that all have the three sides

2452
01:38:39,689 --> 01:38:37,209
existing side by side and not caused the

2453
01:38:41,580 --> 01:38:39,699
total disruption between religions you

2454
01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:41,590
simply build a wall across between the

2455
01:38:45,989 --> 01:38:43,570
golden dome and the new building of the

2456
01:38:47,459 --> 01:38:45,999
Third Temple of Solomon on the other

2457
01:38:49,140 --> 01:38:47,469
side to the north and you could have the

2458
01:38:51,330 --> 01:38:49,150
Jews and Christians visiting the temple

2459
01:38:54,270 --> 01:38:51,340
of Solomon and Islam and the Muslims

2460
01:38:55,919 --> 01:38:54,280
visiting the the mosques and the golden

2461
01:39:02,069 --> 01:38:55,929
dome on the on the south side of the

2462
01:39:03,660 --> 01:39:02,079
Temple Mount excuse me then you have to

2463
01:39:06,179 --> 01:39:03,670
find an artificer they have to find a

2464
01:39:07,350 --> 01:39:06,189
master craftsperson and you have to find

2465
01:39:08,429 --> 01:39:07,360
a king of tyre and that's going to be

2466
01:39:09,509 --> 01:39:08,439
very difficult to be able to do with

2467
01:39:10,979 --> 01:39:09,519
this this point in time

2468
01:39:12,479 --> 01:39:10,989
yeah we're just go and get a Lebanese

2469
01:39:16,770 --> 01:39:12,489
architect because that's where the king

2470
01:39:18,299 --> 01:39:16,780
of thailand to be honest we didn't know

2471
01:39:21,149 --> 01:39:18,309
I mean politically speaking he'll never

2472
01:39:23,759 --> 01:39:21,159
happen but theoretically it's possible

2473
01:39:25,830 --> 01:39:23,769
to make Jerusalem into a city for all

2474
01:39:27,660 --> 01:39:25,840
nations and all religions and you can

2475
01:39:29,160 --> 01:39:27,670
have your you can have your rebuild of

2476
01:39:31,469 --> 01:39:29,170
Solomon's Temple and you will not have

2477
01:39:33,299 --> 01:39:31,479
to destroy the Islamic shrines there and

2478
01:39:36,060 --> 01:39:33,309
everybody will be happy presumably under

2479
01:39:37,529 --> 01:39:36,070
that circumstance now for the final

2480
01:39:42,600 --> 01:39:37,539
segment because we have about 15 minutes

2481
01:39:44,549 --> 01:39:42,610
left and III would get I I would get

2482
01:39:47,399 --> 01:39:44,559
yelled at by some of my more we're not

2483
01:39:48,629 --> 01:39:47,409
yelled at talked to very sternly with it

2484
01:39:49,350 --> 01:39:48,639
with a smile and a wink if I didn't ask

2485
01:39:51,270 --> 01:39:49,360
you this question

2486
01:39:53,520 --> 01:39:51,280
because we do deal with a lot with

2487
01:39:56,029 --> 01:39:53,530
alternative history notes alternative

2488
01:39:59,729 --> 01:39:56,039
ideas some more out there than others

2489
01:40:04,739 --> 01:39:59,739
the Ark of the Covenant what is your

2490
01:40:06,060 --> 01:40:04,749
opinion on the Ark where they found you

2491
01:40:08,939 --> 01:40:06,070
where where it's gonna be located you

2492
01:40:11,339 --> 01:40:08,949
mean where it's going to be located what

2493
01:40:14,819 --> 01:40:11,349
what exactly it was what its origins

2494
01:40:16,890 --> 01:40:14,829
were okay well it clearly it's a casket

2495
01:40:18,899 --> 01:40:16,900
we even have the names of the people who

2496
01:40:19,890 --> 01:40:18,909
made it in the Bible so we have the two

2497
01:40:21,750 --> 01:40:19,900
Crossman who made it

2498
01:40:23,489 --> 01:40:21,760
there was a tabernacle around it we

2499
01:40:25,319 --> 01:40:23,499
should a tented shrine as it were there

2500
01:40:27,929 --> 01:40:25,329
which was mobile which moved around with

2501
01:40:30,390 --> 01:40:27,939
it with the Ark it supposedly contained

2502
01:40:31,230 --> 01:40:30,400
the two tablets of the law with Moses

2503
01:40:32,810 --> 01:40:31,240
wrote and

2504
01:40:35,310 --> 01:40:32,820
we don't know what else was in there

2505
01:40:37,830 --> 01:40:35,320
okay so we have that in the story and

2506
01:40:39,540 --> 01:40:37,840
the biblical story beyond looking beyond

2507
01:40:42,210 --> 01:40:39,550
that we have this strange business about

2508
01:40:43,950 --> 01:40:42,220
people dying if they touch it and and I

2509
01:40:46,440 --> 01:40:43,960
can't explain I mean I know no way to

2510
01:40:48,480 --> 01:40:46,450
explain that you know as a historian I

2511
01:40:50,370 --> 01:40:48,490
don't deal with the supernatural and I

2512
01:40:52,470 --> 01:40:50,380
don't wit deal with the this the sci-fi

2513
01:40:53,820 --> 01:40:52,480
aspects of it either because you know

2514
01:40:57,360 --> 01:40:53,830
that I'm not into that stuff myself

2515
01:40:59,430 --> 01:40:57,370
personally what happened to it well we

2516
01:41:02,370 --> 01:40:59,440
know we really do know what happened to

2517
01:41:04,860 --> 01:41:02,380
it if you accept that what we call the

2518
01:41:06,660 --> 01:41:04,870
extra biblical books that are not

2519
01:41:09,240 --> 01:41:06,670
included in your conventional King James

2520
01:41:13,080 --> 01:41:09,250
Bible which are the Maccabees books one

2521
01:41:15,810 --> 01:41:13,090
or two Maccabees the Apocrypha and so in

2522
01:41:18,570 --> 01:41:15,820
2 Maccabees which we are dealing now

2523
01:41:20,880 --> 01:41:18,580
with the time when Nebuchadnezzar is

2524
01:41:22,530 --> 01:41:20,890
marching down towards Jerusalem from the

2525
01:41:24,210 --> 01:41:22,540
north from Babylon and he's about to

2526
01:41:25,710 --> 01:41:24,220
seize the city and destroy it and

2527
01:41:26,430 --> 01:41:25,720
absolutely smash the temple to

2528
01:41:28,320 --> 01:41:26,440
smithereens

2529
01:41:30,480 --> 01:41:28,330
this is the destruction of Solomon's

2530
01:41:32,790 --> 01:41:30,490
Temple this is the time of the Prophet

2531
01:41:34,200 --> 01:41:32,800
Jeremiah and into your Maccabees it

2532
01:41:36,810 --> 01:41:34,210
actually tells us what happens to the

2533
01:41:38,790 --> 01:41:36,820
ark he says that in fear that it will be

2534
01:41:41,460 --> 01:41:38,800
destroyed and and all taken away to

2535
01:41:43,950 --> 01:41:41,470
Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar he and his

2536
01:41:46,020 --> 01:41:43,960
people removed the ark from the temple

2537
01:41:48,990 --> 01:41:46,030
and they crossed the Jordan and they go

2538
01:41:50,670 --> 01:41:49,000
to the place where Moses is buried in

2539
01:41:52,950 --> 01:41:50,680
his cave near Mount Nebo

2540
01:41:54,900 --> 01:41:52,960
and they placed the ark in the cave

2541
01:41:57,540 --> 01:41:54,910
where Moses was buried because after all

2542
01:41:59,910 --> 01:41:57,550
Moses was the author of the tablets and

2543
01:42:02,100 --> 01:41:59,920
the ark was the container for the tablet

2544
01:42:04,320 --> 01:42:02,110
so that's where it has remained a

2545
01:42:06,300 --> 01:42:04,330
calling to Maccabees ever since in the

2546
01:42:08,220 --> 01:42:06,310
cave or the burial place of Moses and it

2547
01:42:09,960 --> 01:42:08,230
says in the Bible nobody knows where it

2548
01:42:12,960 --> 01:42:09,970
is now it's for long forgotten as to

2549
01:42:15,450 --> 01:42:12,970
where it is also then it then threatens

2550
01:42:17,670 --> 01:42:15,460
us all by saying the day that somebody

2551
01:42:19,890 --> 01:42:17,680
finds it will be the beginning of end

2552
01:42:21,750 --> 01:42:19,900
times that that will begin the story of

2553
01:42:24,030 --> 01:42:21,760
Armageddon when those tablets are found

2554
01:42:25,950 --> 01:42:24,040
so that's what's in Maccabees whether

2555
01:42:27,630 --> 01:42:25,960
you believe it or not that's entirely up

2556
01:42:29,520 --> 01:42:27,640
to you but that's the evidence we have

2557
01:42:32,130 --> 01:42:29,530
and it's the only evidence we have for

2558
01:42:33,660 --> 01:42:32,140
what happened to the ark I don't know if

2559
01:42:37,590 --> 01:42:33,670
there is also myth if I'm not mistaken

2560
01:42:40,080 --> 01:42:37,600
one of them is King Solomon giving it

2561
01:42:41,210 --> 01:42:40,090
King Solomon having visited the Queen or

2562
01:42:44,170 --> 01:42:41,220
the Queen of Sheba visited him

2563
01:42:47,290 --> 01:42:44,180
apparently they produced a son and

2564
01:42:50,260 --> 01:42:47,300
son it came to visit his father and then

2565
01:42:52,930 --> 01:42:50,270
took the tablets away from him there is

2566
01:42:55,240 --> 01:42:52,940
also a tale of it actually being in

2567
01:42:57,610 --> 01:42:55,250
Ethiopia currently having been used

2568
01:43:01,480 --> 01:42:57,620
during World War Two to repel the

2569
01:43:05,800 --> 01:43:01,490
Italian forces there there's a lot of

2570
01:43:06,910 --> 01:43:05,810
Mythology regarding this and the the

2571
01:43:08,110 --> 01:43:06,920
Maccabees story is actually one that I

2572
01:43:10,420 --> 01:43:08,120
have not actually heard before

2573
01:43:11,830 --> 01:43:10,430
well you want to really read two

2574
01:43:13,660 --> 01:43:11,840
Maccabees and you'll see that passage

2575
01:43:15,640 --> 01:43:13,670
there yet will hold the whole story

2576
01:43:19,030 --> 01:43:15,650
about the Queen of Sheba and everything

2577
01:43:21,190 --> 01:43:19,040
and the Ethiopian story of the arc is

2578
01:43:22,900 --> 01:43:21,200
interesting no doubt about it cause

2579
01:43:26,440 --> 01:43:22,910
Graham Hancock his first book was about

2580
01:43:28,690 --> 01:43:26,450
that particular arc it in the Talmudic

2581
01:43:30,220 --> 01:43:28,700
texts and elsewhere there they mentioned

2582
01:43:32,230 --> 01:43:30,230
several copies of the arc that there

2583
01:43:34,360 --> 01:43:32,240
more than one copy of the arc and it may

2584
01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:34,370
well be that one was either taken away

2585
01:43:40,300 --> 01:43:37,370
by the Queen of Sheba back to Sheba the

2586
01:43:42,670 --> 01:43:40,310
land of Sheba by and they had a son

2587
01:43:44,650 --> 01:43:42,680
together as you say and it's it's

2588
01:43:47,980 --> 01:43:44,660
possible that that's the one that's in

2589
01:43:50,290 --> 01:43:47,990
the Ethiopian what you call it now

2590
01:43:52,810 --> 01:43:50,300
Chapel if you like in Ethiopia today

2591
01:43:54,820 --> 01:43:52,820
it's possibly a copy of the original not

2592
01:43:56,980 --> 01:43:54,830
necessarily the original one and so

2593
01:43:58,660 --> 01:43:56,990
there are various explanations to how it

2594
01:44:00,490 --> 01:43:58,670
got there and and what the reasons

2595
01:44:02,260 --> 01:44:00,500
behind it all are and whether there was

2596
01:44:04,210 --> 01:44:02,270
an original arc only or there was more

2597
01:44:06,520 --> 01:44:04,220
than one arc the copies were made for

2598
01:44:08,890 --> 01:44:06,530
various purposes so it's hard to say

2599
01:44:10,840 --> 01:44:08,900
whether or not that story is authentic

2600
01:44:13,480 --> 01:44:10,850
and and nobody has ever been able to go

2601
01:44:15,220 --> 01:44:13,490
in and see that box in that Chapel

2602
01:44:16,840 --> 01:44:15,230
because the The Guardian who looks after

2603
01:44:18,700 --> 01:44:16,850
it is the only one able to see it

2604
01:44:21,730 --> 01:44:18,710
Graham's never seen it I don't know

2605
01:44:23,860 --> 01:44:21,740
anybody that I know of that's seen it so

2606
01:44:27,400 --> 01:44:23,870
although it may well be there it's hard

2607
01:44:29,320 --> 01:44:27,410
to have a historical trace back to

2608
01:44:31,810 --> 01:44:29,330
Jerusalem from that particular location

2609
01:44:35,770 --> 01:44:31,820
in Ethiopia other than a tradition that

2610
01:44:37,950 --> 01:44:35,780
we have now with with let's say your

2611
01:44:40,690 --> 01:44:37,960
work with Tim Mahoney I know that you're

2612
01:44:42,610 --> 01:44:40,700
the production of the new series it's

2613
01:44:43,150 --> 01:44:42,620
still going on or is it has it wrapped

2614
01:44:46,240 --> 01:44:43,160
up yeah

2615
01:44:48,820 --> 01:44:46,250
well it's it's huge it's absolutely you

2616
01:44:51,190 --> 01:44:48,830
know it's bigger than the Bible it's

2617
01:44:54,220 --> 01:44:51,200
actually at the plans are at the moment

2618
01:44:56,320 --> 01:44:54,230
for a twelve part series okay each

2619
01:44:57,879 --> 01:44:56,330
program being two hours long so that's

2620
01:44:59,740 --> 01:44:57,889
24 hours

2621
01:45:01,899 --> 01:44:59,750
of material that has to be edited and

2622
01:45:04,240 --> 01:45:01,909
put together normally the ratio between

2623
01:45:06,970 --> 01:45:04,250
filming and and final product is

2624
01:45:08,560 --> 01:45:06,980
something like 1 to 15 or 1 to 20 so you

2625
01:45:10,410 --> 01:45:08,570
imagine how much material has to be

2626
01:45:13,090 --> 01:45:10,420
filmed in order to fill those 24 hours

2627
01:45:14,350 --> 01:45:13,100
now whether or not we end up with 24

2628
01:45:16,450 --> 01:45:14,360
hours or something different it's

2629
01:45:18,459 --> 01:45:16,460
difficult to say the process is still in

2630
01:45:20,680 --> 01:45:18,469
you know going on they are currently

2631
01:45:22,840 --> 01:45:20,690
editing the the first of those episodes

2632
01:45:24,760 --> 01:45:22,850
those 2 hour episodes which is about

2633
01:45:26,470 --> 01:45:24,770
this proto-sinaitic script I told you

2634
01:45:28,270 --> 01:45:26,480
about the alphabet and and the evidence

2635
01:45:30,340 --> 01:45:28,280
for that but then they're moving on to

2636
01:45:32,740 --> 01:45:30,350
the location of the Mount of Moses the

2637
01:45:34,390 --> 01:45:32,750
the mountain of God and on what

2638
01:45:35,709 --> 01:45:34,400
direction Israelites went on to and that

2639
01:45:37,209 --> 01:45:35,719
will include this business about the

2640
01:45:39,010 --> 01:45:37,219
crossing of the gulf of aqaba and all

2641
01:45:40,720 --> 01:45:39,020
that sort of thing and my arguments

2642
01:45:43,229 --> 01:45:40,730
against it and they'll go on to do

2643
01:45:46,510 --> 01:45:43,239
various other topics within that project

2644
01:45:48,220 --> 01:45:46,520
finally we'll probably move on to the

2645
01:45:50,830 --> 01:45:48,230
United Monarchy period this huge amount

2646
01:45:52,359 --> 01:45:50,840
evidence now coming up about Saul David

2647
01:45:53,950 --> 01:45:52,369
and Solomon and we're finding lots of

2648
01:45:56,169 --> 01:45:53,960
material for the judges period as well

2649
01:45:58,390 --> 01:45:56,179
now which all comes into this this

2650
01:45:59,709 --> 01:45:58,400
program this series whether or not

2651
01:46:01,540 --> 01:45:59,719
they'll all be in the twelve part series

2652
01:46:02,680 --> 01:46:01,550
will be another series to go up to it's

2653
01:46:04,870 --> 01:46:02,690
it's difficult to say at this stage so

2654
01:46:06,640 --> 01:46:04,880
they should be one program coming out

2655
01:46:08,169 --> 01:46:06,650
within the next few months and then the

2656
01:46:09,640 --> 01:46:08,179
other should follow fairly rapidly

2657
01:46:12,520 --> 01:46:09,650
because most of the filming has been

2658
01:46:14,169 --> 01:46:12,530
done for that early storyline so you

2659
01:46:16,450 --> 01:46:14,179
might see by the end of the year two or

2660
01:46:18,520 --> 01:46:16,460
three programs finished by then but of

2661
01:46:20,020 --> 01:46:18,530
course I'm a contributor to it rather

2662
01:46:21,790 --> 01:46:20,030
than being the presenter Tim as the

2663
01:46:24,669 --> 01:46:21,800
presenter of the program under director

2664
01:46:26,859 --> 01:46:24,679
so it's mostly about his version of the

2665
01:46:28,780 --> 01:46:26,869
story and he takes whatever but till I

2666
01:46:31,240 --> 01:46:28,790
give him and he assesses it in relation

2667
01:46:33,760 --> 01:46:31,250
to other people's arguments so we are

2668
01:46:35,140 --> 01:46:33,770
not going to be agreeing like we were in

2669
01:46:36,430 --> 01:46:35,150
the first part is revered as program

2670
01:46:38,859 --> 01:46:36,440
about the Exodus because now I

2671
01:46:40,810 --> 01:46:38,869
wholeheartedly disagree with the

2672
01:46:42,729 --> 01:46:40,820
crossing of the Gulf of Aqaba

2673
01:46:45,189 --> 01:46:42,739
I don't believe that to be correct at

2674
01:46:47,050 --> 01:46:45,199
all I also disagree that the mountain of

2675
01:46:48,700 --> 01:46:47,060
Moses was in Arabia I don't think that's

2676
01:46:50,830 --> 01:46:48,710
correct either I think it was in mouth

2677
01:46:52,450 --> 01:46:50,840
in in the Sinai Peninsula so we're going

2678
01:46:55,419 --> 01:46:52,460
to disagree about it and it's it all

2679
01:46:57,250 --> 01:46:55,429
down to what the viewer will say or will

2680
01:46:59,169 --> 01:46:57,260
understand of the arguments and which

2681
01:47:01,540 --> 01:46:59,179
one they're going to gonna accept as

2682
01:47:03,040 --> 01:47:01,550
being correct I think I'm correct well

2683
01:47:05,740 --> 01:47:03,050
the people may think that these other

2684
01:47:07,510 --> 01:47:05,750
theorists are correct and we'll see but

2685
01:47:10,700 --> 01:47:07,520
I think the argument is very strong now

2686
01:47:12,770 --> 01:47:10,710
that the traditional location and route

2687
01:47:14,690 --> 01:47:12,780
into the Sinai Peninsula is the one that

2688
01:47:15,920 --> 01:47:14,700
actually is the authoritative one the

2689
01:47:18,380 --> 01:47:15,930
one that is based on the real history

2690
01:47:19,610 --> 01:47:18,390
now you have to look at it for anybody

2691
01:47:21,710 --> 01:47:19,620
who's looking at a theory you have to

2692
01:47:23,570 --> 01:47:21,720
take a look at all the evidence and to

2693
01:47:25,640 --> 01:47:23,580
take it where it leads so even if you do

2694
01:47:31,190 --> 01:47:25,650
have disagreements that could still lead

2695
01:47:33,110 --> 01:47:31,200
to possibly a third reality which could

2696
01:47:36,380 --> 01:47:33,120
be either a mix of the two theories or

2697
01:47:38,060 --> 01:47:36,390
one of the other and and and that's okay

2698
01:47:40,280 --> 01:47:38,070
because at the it's about at least

2699
01:47:41,780 --> 01:47:40,290
thinking about the possibilities I think

2700
01:47:44,120 --> 01:47:41,790
that's true to a degree but we have a

2701
01:47:47,210 --> 01:47:44,130
dichotomy here between the conventional

2702
01:47:49,910 --> 01:47:47,220
route and location of the mountain of

2703
01:47:51,350 --> 01:47:49,920
God and this alternative theory of Saudi

2704
01:47:53,300 --> 01:47:51,360
Arabia being the place where the

2705
01:47:56,240 --> 01:47:53,310
mountain is located which necessitates a

2706
01:47:57,680 --> 01:47:56,250
crossing of the gulf of aqaba they can't

2707
01:47:59,000 --> 01:47:57,690
both be right and you can't have a bit

2708
01:48:00,980 --> 01:47:59,010
of one and a bit of the other that

2709
01:48:02,870 --> 01:48:00,990
doesn't make any sense because the real

2710
01:48:06,050 --> 01:48:02,880
location of the crossing of the Red Sea

2711
01:48:08,180 --> 01:48:06,060
we now think and many geologists are on

2712
01:48:10,460 --> 01:48:08,190
that on board of this now is not located

2713
01:48:13,430 --> 01:48:10,470
in the Gulf of Aqaba is actually located

2714
01:48:15,440 --> 01:48:13,440
in northwest Sinai in the area what we

2715
01:48:16,880 --> 01:48:15,450
call the Suez Canal region today it's

2716
01:48:18,590 --> 01:48:16,890
much more likely to be there and we have

2717
01:48:20,360 --> 01:48:18,600
some very very strong not only

2718
01:48:22,730 --> 01:48:20,370
archaeological evidence for that but we

2719
01:48:25,160 --> 01:48:22,740
also have scientific evidence to produce

2720
01:48:27,530 --> 01:48:25,170
a parting of the sea there or the waters

2721
01:48:30,440 --> 01:48:27,540
there across the northern Sinai with a

2722
01:48:32,660 --> 01:48:30,450
strong eastern wind of 62 miles per hour

2723
01:48:35,150 --> 01:48:32,670
there's been computer modeling done of

2724
01:48:37,340 --> 01:48:35,160
that region this area we call part two

2725
01:48:39,080 --> 01:48:37,350
for a young Soph the Egyptians call it

2726
01:48:41,360 --> 01:48:39,090
part you've these rights call it yumps

2727
01:48:43,130 --> 01:48:41,370
of the sea of reeds and and we can

2728
01:48:44,780 --> 01:48:43,140
actually have scientific evidence now of

2729
01:48:46,970 --> 01:48:44,790
computer modeling as to what happens to

2730
01:48:49,070 --> 01:48:46,980
water when you blow an east wind across

2731
01:48:50,810 --> 01:48:49,080
it it actually parts the water for

2732
01:48:52,880 --> 01:48:50,820
several hours something like eight hours

2733
01:48:54,620 --> 01:48:52,890
and it returns in a rush and that's

2734
01:48:55,940 --> 01:48:54,630
exactly as described in the Bible and

2735
01:48:58,070 --> 01:48:55,950
it's in this location this location

2736
01:49:00,110 --> 01:48:58,080
alone that we get this phenomena

2737
01:49:03,200 --> 01:49:00,120
happening this phenomenon happening that

2738
01:49:05,090 --> 01:49:03,210
is awesome okay so we can show it

2739
01:49:07,460 --> 01:49:05,100
scientifically now and and that will all

2740
01:49:08,990 --> 01:49:07,470
be in the programs as well it's been

2741
01:49:10,580 --> 01:49:09,000
works been done by Carl Troost and

2742
01:49:12,920 --> 01:49:10,590
Americo has gotten them this modeling

2743
01:49:15,200 --> 01:49:12,930
over the terrain the depth of the water

2744
01:49:18,590 --> 01:49:15,210
the power of the wind he can vary all

2745
01:49:20,360 --> 01:49:18,600
these different elements to come up with

2746
01:49:23,330 --> 01:49:20,370
a model which shows how the waters can

2747
01:49:23,960 --> 01:49:23,340
part you can walk through on dry land

2748
01:49:25,670 --> 01:49:23,970
sick

2749
01:49:27,880 --> 01:49:25,680
two miles per hour you can walk in 62

2750
01:49:30,650 --> 01:49:27,890
miles per hour to park the Gulf of Aqaba

2751
01:49:32,300 --> 01:49:30,660
down two and a half thousand feet you

2752
01:49:33,920 --> 01:49:32,310
would not be able to stand on the planet

2753
01:49:37,490 --> 01:49:33,930
if the wind was blowing that strong to

2754
01:49:40,070 --> 01:49:37,500
park that sort of water now I'm gonna

2755
01:49:42,770 --> 01:49:40,080
ask you at least it with the you and Tim

2756
01:49:44,210 --> 01:49:42,780
having worked together for well the

2757
01:49:46,370 --> 01:49:44,220
first patterns of evidence that came out

2758
01:49:49,400 --> 01:49:46,380
2015 I'm probably guessing was about a

2759
01:49:52,940 --> 01:49:49,410
two-year production time oh it was 13

2760
01:49:56,210 --> 01:49:52,950
years Wow okay where he started 13 years

2761
01:49:59,480 --> 01:49:56,220
before that and I first did to meet me I

2762
01:50:01,490 --> 01:49:59,490
think in 2001 or something so um a long

2763
01:50:03,320 --> 01:50:01,500
long time ago but then he was looking at

2764
01:50:04,910 --> 01:50:03,330
the route of the Exodus and then after

2765
01:50:06,680 --> 01:50:04,920
interviewing me they decided they wanted

2766
01:50:08,300 --> 01:50:06,690
to change the story and to do with the

2767
01:50:10,220 --> 01:50:08,310
actual historicity the Exodus first

2768
01:50:11,960 --> 01:50:10,230
because if you don't have a real history

2769
01:50:13,250 --> 01:50:11,970
of the exodus then how can you have a

2770
01:50:16,940 --> 01:50:13,260
route of Exodus you know you need to

2771
01:50:19,820 --> 01:50:16,950
start with one and follower the next and

2772
01:50:21,710 --> 01:50:19,830
what is your creative process like with

2773
01:50:26,300 --> 01:50:21,720
regards to either the filmmaking or

2774
01:50:28,700 --> 01:50:26,310
trying to form the the bulk of how each

2775
01:50:30,560 --> 01:50:28,710
episode is going to work well I don't

2776
01:50:32,630 --> 01:50:30,570
have a say in the construction of the

2777
01:50:34,220 --> 01:50:32,640
over the films that the documentaries

2778
01:50:36,200 --> 01:50:34,230
because that has to be done by the

2779
01:50:37,850 --> 01:50:36,210
direction his team I mustn't influence

2780
01:50:40,610 --> 01:50:37,860
that because that would be a bias that

2781
01:50:43,790 --> 01:50:40,620
can't happen all I can do is to

2782
01:50:45,590 --> 01:50:43,800
communicate with Jim and we have oh so

2783
01:50:47,300 --> 01:50:45,600
many hours and hours of conversations I

2784
01:50:49,460 --> 01:50:47,310
go and stay at his house and we talk for

2785
01:50:51,470 --> 01:50:49,470
weeks on end or we go into the shooting

2786
01:50:53,150 --> 01:50:51,480
we film interviews and we have hours and

2787
01:50:54,920 --> 01:50:53,160
hours of interviews he comes over to

2788
01:50:57,230 --> 01:50:54,930
Spain and he sits here and we talk about

2789
01:50:59,210 --> 01:50:57,240
stuff here we meet in Israel we meet in

2790
01:51:01,460 --> 01:50:59,220
Jordan we're always talking talking

2791
01:51:03,530 --> 01:51:01,470
talking going through ideas at locations

2792
01:51:05,780 --> 01:51:03,540
and just just musing over the whole

2793
01:51:07,640 --> 01:51:05,790
story and getting all the evidence

2794
01:51:10,010 --> 01:51:07,650
together so he uses me as a sort of a

2795
01:51:12,620 --> 01:51:10,020
library of information and then he goes

2796
01:51:14,810 --> 01:51:12,630
away and constructs his documentary and

2797
01:51:17,090 --> 01:51:14,820
and although people think I somehow or

2798
01:51:20,030 --> 01:51:17,100
other have an influence upon how it

2799
01:51:21,530 --> 01:51:20,040
comes out I don't I don't have a say on

2800
01:51:23,750 --> 01:51:21,540
how it comes out that's down to Tim not

2801
01:51:27,250 --> 01:51:23,760
not down to me now you're you're a

2802
01:51:30,650 --> 01:51:27,260
musician as well yeah you're relatively

2803
01:51:32,030 --> 01:51:30,660
accomplished one actually since drum

2804
01:51:34,430 --> 01:51:32,040
turned out to date you here I'm gonna

2805
01:51:37,289 --> 01:51:34,440
say at least like the late 80s early 90s

2806
01:51:41,759 --> 01:51:37,299
oh boy

2807
01:51:43,799 --> 01:51:41,769
yeah absolutely he said Tim's also a

2808
01:51:46,699 --> 01:51:43,809
musician he plays guitar as well how

2809
01:51:49,229 --> 01:51:46,709
often do you guys you know do guys jam

2810
01:51:51,029 --> 01:51:49,239
what what Jim is a good creative process

2811
01:51:53,399 --> 01:51:51,039
like well I'm a bit different really

2812
01:51:55,049 --> 01:51:53,409
because I started my career at the age

2813
01:51:56,759 --> 01:51:55,059
of 16 in the music industry with the

2814
01:51:59,009 --> 01:51:56,769
first band that I formed and I was a

2815
01:52:01,379 --> 01:51:59,019
keyboard player and within a space of a

2816
01:52:02,789 --> 01:52:01,389
few years I was a recording engineer and

2817
01:52:05,699 --> 01:52:02,799
I became a recording engineer from there

2818
01:52:07,199 --> 01:52:05,709
I became a record producer so my my side

2819
01:52:08,759 --> 01:52:07,209
of things were more on the technical and

2820
01:52:09,959 --> 01:52:08,769
creative side in the studio not in the

2821
01:52:11,789 --> 01:52:09,969
live performance side although we did

2822
01:52:14,969 --> 01:52:11,799
perform live in the first few bands that

2823
01:52:17,639 --> 01:52:14,979
I was in and so I'm much more of an

2824
01:52:19,949 --> 01:52:17,649
arranger and director of music rather or

2825
01:52:22,500 --> 01:52:19,959
what we call record producer than than a

2826
01:52:25,649 --> 01:52:22,510
a musician now I don't jam in balance

2827
01:52:27,929 --> 01:52:25,659
anymore I used to do so I I still write

2828
01:52:30,029 --> 01:52:27,939
film music for instance and record for

2829
01:52:31,979 --> 01:52:30,039
music I have a studio ma house here when

2830
01:52:33,659 --> 01:52:31,989
I record music and qual all the music in

2831
01:52:36,289 --> 01:52:33,669
the patch evidence documentaries is my

2832
01:52:39,269 --> 01:52:36,299
music that I compose for them unrecorded

2833
01:52:42,479 --> 01:52:39,279
so I do a lot of I do a lot of symphonic

2834
01:52:44,909 --> 01:52:42,489
music I use Pro Tools recording systems

2835
01:52:46,319 --> 01:52:44,919
to do a bit like Hans Zimmer that type

2836
01:52:48,329 --> 01:52:46,329
of music if you know it from like

2837
01:52:50,339 --> 01:52:48,339
gladiator or one of one of those movies

2838
01:52:52,409 --> 01:52:50,349
so that's the type of music I do today

2839
01:52:56,399 --> 01:52:52,419
and it's not really the sort of music

2840
01:52:58,109 --> 01:52:56,409
you would do to jam Tim is more of it

2841
01:53:01,109 --> 01:52:58,119
because he's a devout Christian he tends

2842
01:53:02,099 --> 01:53:01,119
to do a lot of Christian songs modern

2843
01:53:05,339 --> 01:53:02,109
Christian songs and more traditional

2844
01:53:07,500 --> 01:53:05,349
ones he also is very heavily involved in

2845
01:53:09,119 --> 01:53:07,510
blues and and bluegrass and stuff so he

2846
01:53:11,219 --> 01:53:09,129
plays a lot of that such kind of thing I

2847
01:53:12,719 --> 01:53:11,229
would call country music but nice

2848
01:53:15,629 --> 01:53:12,729
country music as opposed to the other

2849
01:53:17,579 --> 01:53:15,639
song and and so we don't really play

2850
01:53:19,079 --> 01:53:17,589
much together like that but we do talk

2851
01:53:21,269 --> 01:53:19,089
music a lot and of course because he's a

2852
01:53:22,709 --> 01:53:21,279
musician he can appreciate it when he

2853
01:53:24,389 --> 01:53:22,719
wants me to write music for one of the

2854
01:53:26,219 --> 01:53:24,399
documentaries he can understand the

2855
01:53:28,169 --> 01:53:26,229
process he kind of appreciate the music

2856
01:53:29,759 --> 01:53:28,179
and how it will fit into the visuals so

2857
01:53:32,789 --> 01:53:29,769
that relationship works very well as

2858
01:53:34,019 --> 01:53:32,799
well but so we have a we have an older

2859
01:53:36,959 --> 01:53:34,029
brother younger brother relationship I

2860
01:53:39,750 --> 01:53:36,969
suppose I'm older than him and he he is

2861
01:53:41,429 --> 01:53:39,760
learning from me they're the historical

2862
01:53:44,279 --> 01:53:41,439
and archaeological elements to construct

2863
01:53:46,649 --> 01:53:44,289
his documentaries I'm learning from him

2864
01:53:48,929 --> 01:53:46,659
the processes involved in making this

2865
01:53:51,180 --> 01:53:48,939
type of documentary so it's a two-way

2866
01:53:55,860 --> 01:53:51,190
street if you like and it's a very good

2867
01:53:58,890 --> 01:53:55,870
very very warm relationship and for your

2868
01:54:04,130 --> 01:53:58,900
and speaking of warm actually I'll point

2869
01:54:06,959 --> 01:54:04,140
this out you recently were on a cruise

2870
01:54:08,820 --> 01:54:06,969
conference I'm talking lecture series

2871
01:54:11,010 --> 01:54:08,830
and I know that this is very popular

2872
01:54:13,320 --> 01:54:11,020
that's very learned men such as

2873
01:54:15,510 --> 01:54:13,330
yourselves will escape to the Adriatic

2874
01:54:18,170 --> 01:54:15,520
to my home country Croatia to enjoy the

2875
01:54:21,930 --> 01:54:18,180
food enjoy the sights and and talk about

2876
01:54:23,700 --> 01:54:21,940
very large ideas how was your how did

2877
01:54:26,550 --> 01:54:23,710
your last lecture series go and when is

2878
01:54:28,890 --> 01:54:26,560
the next one it was good fun I mean we

2879
01:54:30,780 --> 01:54:28,900
flew into Dubai which is in the Persian

2880
01:54:32,189 --> 01:54:30,790
Gulf and joined the ship there and the

2881
01:54:33,930 --> 01:54:32,199
ship was on a round-the-world trip it

2882
01:54:35,430 --> 01:54:33,940
had been on there on the Seas for 99

2883
01:54:37,350 --> 01:54:35,440
days I mean they've gone right around

2884
01:54:39,330 --> 01:54:37,360
the world and the people on board had

2885
01:54:41,220 --> 01:54:39,340
been having guest lecturers from all

2886
01:54:43,229 --> 01:54:41,230
over the place arriving at different

2887
01:54:45,930 --> 01:54:43,239
locations and talking for a week or two

2888
01:54:47,280 --> 01:54:45,940
weeks and then uh disembarking waving

2889
01:54:49,590 --> 01:54:47,290
them off for the next leg of the journey

2890
01:54:50,340 --> 01:54:49,600
well I was asked to do the leg from

2891
01:54:53,189 --> 01:54:50,350
Norway BRR

2892
01:54:55,170 --> 01:54:53,199
although around the Arabian Sea through

2893
01:54:57,240 --> 01:54:55,180
the Arabian Peninsula into the

2894
01:54:58,680 --> 01:54:57,250
bab-el-mandeb Strait going into the Red

2895
01:55:00,840 --> 01:54:58,690
Sea all the way up the Red Sea to the

2896
01:55:03,180 --> 01:55:00,850
Gulf of Aqaba all the way to the city of

2897
01:55:04,920 --> 01:55:03,190
Aqaba then we went off to Petra and and

2898
01:55:06,540 --> 01:55:04,930
and Wadi Rum in that area we came back

2899
01:55:08,729 --> 01:55:06,550
down to the bottom of Sinai we went all

2900
01:55:11,010 --> 01:55:08,739
the way up to sue his golf we went

2901
01:55:12,689 --> 01:55:11,020
through the Suez Canal we looked at the

2902
01:55:13,770 --> 01:55:12,699
the sea of reeds area and all the rest

2903
01:55:16,020 --> 01:55:13,780
of it then we sailed across the

2904
01:55:17,630 --> 01:55:16,030
Mediterranean to Sicily we came through

2905
01:55:21,240 --> 01:55:17,640
the Messina Straits and ended up in

2906
01:55:22,979 --> 01:55:21,250
Naples which is where I disembarked then

2907
01:55:25,680 --> 01:55:22,989
I spent three days researching in Rome

2908
01:55:26,340 --> 01:55:25,690
because I'm researching material for the

2909
01:55:29,550 --> 01:55:26,350
Holy Grail

2910
01:55:31,020 --> 01:55:29,560
legends as well which originated you

2911
01:55:33,720 --> 01:55:31,030
probably not aware of this but they

2912
01:55:35,459 --> 01:55:33,730
originate in Rome originally the the

2913
01:55:37,560 --> 01:55:35,469
Rome are no Spanish traditions are the

2914
01:55:39,540 --> 01:55:37,570
original core of an Arthurian tradition

2915
01:55:40,979 --> 01:55:39,550
of the Holy Grail and so I've been doing

2916
01:55:42,150 --> 01:55:40,989
a lot of work on that Risa so I spent

2917
01:55:45,420 --> 01:55:42,160
three days there going into these

2918
01:55:46,740 --> 01:55:45,430
amazing very early basilica's third and

2919
01:55:48,570 --> 01:55:46,750
fourth century basilica's look at the

2920
01:55:50,189 --> 01:55:48,580
mosaics looking at the people the

2921
01:55:52,110 --> 01:55:50,199
personalities that were involved in the

2922
01:55:54,990 --> 01:55:52,120
building of those constructions those

2923
01:55:56,760 --> 01:55:55,000
those early Christian monuments and so

2924
01:55:58,620 --> 01:55:56,770
the whole thing was not just research

2925
01:56:00,150 --> 01:55:58,630
for me but also giving these lectures on

2926
01:56:03,000 --> 01:56:00,160
the ship I'd gave 9 lectures all

2927
01:56:04,250 --> 01:56:03,010
together large audiences fantastic

2928
01:56:07,220 --> 01:56:04,260
theater so they

2929
01:56:09,229 --> 01:56:07,230
the seas lovely food what more could you

2930
01:56:11,450 --> 01:56:09,239
want really for an archaeologist

2931
01:56:12,950 --> 01:56:11,460
historian like me in his retirement

2932
01:56:13,310 --> 01:56:12,960
years to be going and doing stuff like

2933
01:56:15,290 --> 01:56:13,320
this

2934
01:56:17,240 --> 01:56:15,300
so I've got another one I'm doing

2935
01:56:19,040 --> 01:56:17,250
another one in the Med just before

2936
01:56:21,020 --> 01:56:19,050
Christmas in December and they keep

2937
01:56:22,520 --> 01:56:21,030
coming in and I'll continue to do them

2938
01:56:25,760 --> 01:56:22,530
I'm getting awfully fat on the food

2939
01:56:27,800 --> 01:56:25,770
which is not very good but but at the

2940
01:56:31,550 --> 01:56:27,810
end of the day my job is to disseminate

2941
01:56:33,410 --> 01:56:31,560
ideas and inspire people and I hope I do

2942
01:56:35,660 --> 01:56:33,420
that you know through talking to you and

2943
01:56:37,340 --> 01:56:35,670
programs like this or going electric on

2944
01:56:39,710 --> 01:56:37,350
cruises or giving public lectures in the

2945
01:56:41,420 --> 01:56:39,720
States that's my job now and the

2946
01:56:44,330 --> 01:56:41,430
archaeological side is over for me now

2947
01:56:45,830 --> 01:56:44,340
my nice car take any more of that debt

2948
01:56:47,600 --> 01:56:45,840
diggin in the dirt and getting filthy

2949
01:56:49,100 --> 01:56:47,610
dirty and I'm you know hurting your

2950
01:56:50,810 --> 01:56:49,110
knees one year in the hard ground I

2951
01:56:52,160 --> 01:56:50,820
leave of us to do that now but I'm still

2952
01:56:55,280 --> 01:56:52,170
involved in the interpretation of the

2953
01:56:57,290 --> 01:56:55,290
evidence so that's my job now our public

2954
01:56:59,900 --> 01:56:57,300
continue to do until I'm boxed and put

2955
01:57:02,300 --> 01:56:59,910
in the ground but you know that's the

2956
01:57:03,590 --> 01:57:02,310
life I'll eat now my days of traveling

2957
01:57:05,540 --> 01:57:03,600
and adventuring are over

2958
01:57:08,990 --> 01:57:05,550
apart from these cruises which is a nice

2959
01:57:11,000 --> 01:57:09,000
way to do it and finally a for the

2960
01:57:13,430 --> 01:57:11,010
lecture series had the DVD lecture

2961
01:57:16,580 --> 01:57:13,440
series again the to DVD lecture series

2962
01:57:18,500 --> 01:57:16,590
contains what content specifically well

2963
01:57:21,290 --> 01:57:18,510
there are four lectures in there about

2964
01:57:22,670 --> 01:57:21,300
an hour each there's some also some open

2965
01:57:24,170 --> 01:57:22,680
discussion between the audience and

2966
01:57:26,330 --> 01:57:24,180
myself which is a small early spring

2967
01:57:28,610 --> 01:57:26,340
homely look sort of like little set up

2968
01:57:29,870 --> 01:57:28,620
we've got there very nice I can't man

2969
01:57:31,880 --> 01:57:29,880
what's on there now but it's mainly to

2970
01:57:33,800 --> 01:57:31,890
do with the Exodus I think there's a

2971
01:57:36,229 --> 01:57:33,810
lecture on sheesh I can show shank this

2972
01:57:37,400 --> 01:57:36,239
equation and why it's mistaken and the

2973
01:57:39,110 --> 01:57:37,410
fact that Rama see the second is the

2974
01:57:41,030 --> 01:57:39,120
real she shocked this one on the

2975
01:57:42,890 --> 01:57:41,040
wandering through Sinai in the locations

2976
01:57:45,620 --> 01:57:42,900
there's this one on the Exodus story

2977
01:57:47,420 --> 01:57:45,630
itself and aid the story of the sahjhan

2978
01:57:48,860 --> 01:57:47,430
and Joseph and all that so all that

2979
01:57:51,140 --> 01:57:48,870
material is in there there's one on the

2980
01:57:53,120 --> 01:57:51,150
el-amarna letters and and where that

2981
01:57:55,250 --> 01:57:53,130
works in the chronology of Egypt now

2982
01:57:58,520 --> 01:57:55,260
with this new chronology so they're all

2983
01:58:00,410 --> 01:57:58,530
in there and it's available from the

2984
01:58:01,940 --> 01:58:00,420
patent sevens website is so she said

2985
01:58:04,220 --> 01:58:01,950
it's not expensive and it's it's very

2986
01:58:06,500 --> 01:58:04,230
good value for money I think and it's a

2987
01:58:08,390 --> 01:58:06,510
it's a way to learn about my arguments

2988
01:58:10,940 --> 01:58:08,400
of my thesis without actually having to

2989
01:58:12,350 --> 01:58:10,950
delve into too much heavy reading and

2990
01:58:15,110 --> 01:58:12,360
also another there was a question in the

2991
01:58:17,180 --> 01:58:15,120
YouTube chat regarding David's book

2992
01:58:20,450 --> 01:58:17,190
regarding the Exodus

2993
01:58:22,370 --> 01:58:20,460
the link is also in the show notes

2994
01:58:23,600 --> 01:58:22,380
exodus at Mithra history it's available

2995
01:58:26,120 --> 01:58:23,610
on Amazon

2996
01:58:28,850 --> 01:58:26,130
is it available on Kindle or epub yet

2997
01:58:31,160 --> 01:58:28,860
it's not armed Kindle no because it's

2998
01:58:33,530 --> 01:58:31,170
full-color it's like 400 pages of

2999
01:58:35,060 --> 01:58:33,540
full-color on proper artwork so to try

3000
01:58:36,520 --> 01:58:35,070
and let put that in Turkey it's very

3001
01:58:38,870 --> 01:58:36,530
difficult it is available as an e-book

3002
01:58:40,910 --> 01:58:38,880
so you can can get it from the Apple

3003
01:58:42,890 --> 01:58:40,920
store - it's available there because

3004
01:58:45,140 --> 01:58:42,900
they can handle it but a Kindle it's not

3005
01:58:48,080 --> 01:58:45,150
so easy to do full coloring it will also

3006
01:58:49,520 --> 01:58:48,090
be an enormous download so so it wait

3007
01:58:50,720 --> 01:58:49,530
I've not done it on Kindle I may

3008
01:58:51,980 --> 01:58:50,730
eventually get it on Kindle but at the

3009
01:58:55,730 --> 01:58:51,990
moment it's only available as an e-book

3010
01:58:57,440 --> 01:58:55,740
and finally you are you are working on a

3011
01:59:00,440 --> 01:58:57,450
new book if I'm not mistaken I've heard

3012
01:59:03,110 --> 01:59:00,450
rumblings of that yes what is it now

3013
01:59:05,270 --> 01:59:03,120
let's have a think it's called it's

3014
01:59:07,190 --> 01:59:05,280
called legendary King so I'm continuing

3015
01:59:08,600 --> 01:59:07,200
the story after the conquest of the

3016
01:59:10,880 --> 01:59:08,610
promised land after the Exodus I'm

3017
01:59:12,350 --> 01:59:10,890
moving on it to the period of Judges and

3018
01:59:14,120 --> 01:59:12,360
then on to the United Monarchy

3019
01:59:16,160 --> 01:59:14,130
which is the time of Saul Devin a

3020
01:59:17,720 --> 01:59:16,170
Solomon and then to the divided monarchy

3021
01:59:19,730 --> 01:59:17,730
and I'm dealing with all the archaeology

3022
01:59:22,280 --> 01:59:19,740
and how that fits together with this

3023
01:59:24,890 --> 01:59:22,290
Egyptian timeline and the new chronology

3024
01:59:26,450 --> 01:59:24,900
timeline to show you that it's not just

3025
01:59:28,490 --> 01:59:26,460
about the Exodus story but the entire

3026
01:59:30,830 --> 01:59:28,500
history of the Bible works within this

3027
01:59:33,260 --> 01:59:30,840
new dating system and is compatible the

3028
01:59:35,440 --> 01:59:33,270
Egyptian history and how far along is

3029
01:59:37,820 --> 01:59:35,450
that can we expect that to drop soon

3030
01:59:39,260 --> 01:59:37,830
well I've been trying to get it finished

3031
01:59:40,760 --> 01:59:39,270
for quite some time now but I keep

3032
01:59:43,520 --> 01:59:40,770
getting distracted by people doing these

3033
01:59:45,680 --> 01:59:43,530
interviews with me and and also going

3034
01:59:47,540 --> 01:59:45,690
off on cruises and things so I'm gonna

3035
01:59:49,670 --> 01:59:47,550
get back to it now I'm gonna spend much

3036
01:59:51,860 --> 01:59:49,680
of the the next few months now getting

3037
01:59:53,360 --> 01:59:51,870
back to work on that and so I'm hoping

3038
01:59:54,890 --> 01:59:53,370
to get the writing finished by the end

3039
01:59:56,360 --> 01:59:54,900
of the year and it should be out

3040
01:59:59,600 --> 01:59:56,370
sometime next year with a bit of luck

3041
02:00:00,830 --> 01:59:59,610
you had the art for that or at least at

3042
02:00:03,050 --> 02:00:00,840
the options for the art for that on your

3043
02:00:05,540 --> 02:00:03,060
Facebook page quite a couple of months

3044
02:00:07,670 --> 02:00:05,550
ago for so if anybody is following David

3045
02:00:08,870 --> 02:00:07,680
on Facebook if you go back into the

3046
02:00:11,240 --> 02:00:08,880
history far enough that you can actually

3047
02:00:15,550 --> 02:00:11,250
find it I think it's breathtaking

3048
02:00:18,980 --> 02:00:15,560
I can't wait for it but I have to so I

3049
02:00:22,430 --> 02:00:18,990
add just like all of you but again good

3050
02:00:24,560 --> 02:00:22,440
things come to those who wait and David

3051
02:00:26,390 --> 02:00:24,570
I'd like to thank you we're word at the

3052
02:00:28,370 --> 02:00:26,400
end of the interview I know that you

3053
02:00:30,680 --> 02:00:28,380
have an evening to get to

3054
02:00:31,700 --> 02:00:30,690
and a weekend's to enjoy and to be able

3055
02:00:34,220 --> 02:00:31,710
to kick back and relax

3056
02:00:36,740 --> 02:00:34,230
I want to thank you very much for the

3057
02:00:38,030 --> 02:00:36,750
time this morning or this evening or

3058
02:00:41,450 --> 02:00:38,040
this afternoon for you this morning for

3059
02:00:43,430 --> 02:00:41,460
me a fantastic fantastic interview again

3060
02:00:44,480 --> 02:00:43,440
one of at least in my opinion probably

3061
02:00:47,540 --> 02:00:44,490
it's going to be one of my favorite

3062
02:00:50,060 --> 02:00:47,550
shows of all time here again thank you

3063
02:00:51,860 --> 02:00:50,070
for the two hours well thank you Chris

3064
02:00:52,940 --> 02:00:51,870
as well Amy's great fun it's always good

3065
02:00:53,480 --> 02:00:52,950
to talk to you and we'll do it again

3066
02:00:56,480 --> 02:00:53,490
sometime

3067
02:00:59,000 --> 02:00:56,490
oh definitely I'd love that all right

3068
02:01:01,340 --> 02:00:59,010
and one moment here while I just queue

3069
02:01:04,940 --> 02:01:01,350
up the music I don't have anything

3070
02:01:06,770 --> 02:01:04,950
topical David so I'm gonna play our this

3071
02:01:08,990 --> 02:01:06,780
is actually from my friend a Van Damme

3072
02:01:12,200 --> 02:01:09,000
shake it it seems to be our kind of

3073
02:01:14,450 --> 02:01:12,210
outro theme for anybody who's wonder

3074
02:01:19,040 --> 02:01:14,460
what we're doing next week we talked

3075
02:01:24,200 --> 02:01:19,050
about Egypt and the three thousand two

3076
02:01:26,210 --> 02:01:24,210
one thousand BC era next week we go so

3077
02:01:28,490 --> 02:01:26,220
far into the past it's actually the

3078
02:01:33,260 --> 02:01:28,500
beginning of time we have one of the top

3079
02:01:35,710 --> 02:01:33,270
scientists behind the mysteries of the

3080
02:01:38,540 --> 02:01:35,720
Big Bang on what happened afterwards

3081
02:01:40,190 --> 02:01:38,550
with this new release or released book

3082
02:01:41,840 --> 02:01:40,200
Rock no actually it's been released on

3083
02:01:43,970 --> 02:01:41,850
the tweak on the 24th so a couple days

3084
02:01:47,380 --> 02:01:43,980
from now Bryan Keating is going to be on

3085
02:01:49,880 --> 02:01:47,390
the program we are his world exclusive

3086
02:01:52,160 --> 02:01:49,890
first interview here in the den of lore

3087
02:01:54,940 --> 02:01:52,170
the books been reviewed in if I'm not

3088
02:02:00,110 --> 02:01:54,950
mistaken nature as well as astronomy

3089
02:02:02,330 --> 02:02:00,120
magazines and that's gonna be awesome

3090
02:02:04,520 --> 02:02:02,340
Thursday 8 p.m. eastern standard time 7

3091
02:02:07,550 --> 02:02:04,530
p.m. central 6 p.m. mountain and 5 p.m.

3092
02:02:10,520 --> 02:02:07,560
Pacific it's gonna be here live on

3093
02:02:14,510 --> 02:02:10,530
YouTube periscope Facebook live and

3094
02:02:18,080 --> 02:02:14,520
twitch TV and also an audio on Spreaker

3095
02:02:19,730 --> 02:02:18,090
my name is Chris George Zuger and this

3096
02:02:23,990 --> 02:02:19,740
has been at the den of lore with David

3097
02:02:26,210 --> 02:02:24,000
Grohl episode 88 April 20th 2018

3098
02:02:37,370 --> 02:02:26,220
to have yourselves a wonderful weekend

3099
02:07:48,160 --> 02:02:54,510
[Music]